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XXXX

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So UAL promised 175s....they came and went without protections
Greg said let’s get this deal done and after the first of the year we will work on other issues...was that ever completed?
UAL takes the 175s away, less than a year, and the spin is we will be the premier 145 operator for UAL.
Company makes pilots on LTD pay full price for medical, they down grade hundreds of CPTs to FOs and future furloughs of FOs and we are asked to pick up the slack because of the company?

IF you go down the path of negotiating concessions there are 2 things THIS pilot group deserves.

1. Any concessions ARE contingent on a fully disclosed, updated CPA. IF the CPA is not fulfilled by UAL or Manair, that a snap back of all concessions be made to this pilot group. If there needs to be an arbitration both sides agree to an expedited Arbitration.

2. Any concessions, and full disclosure of ALL details, are put for a vote by all eligible XE pilots.
 

XXXX

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Any concessions will not stop furloughs. Remember the SH memo. The magic number was 40 a/c. You do the math.

Good Luck to all.
 

Flying V

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Assuming the airline survives this pandemic, what is the best estimate on how deep the furloughs will go?
 

Flying V

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I have the feeling there won't be many of us around to take concessions.
 
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suitcase

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Basically United wants only one erj operator. Since Commute Air makes less than us, you see where this going. Drop your price to there level or we go away. I'm sure they have already decided who is going away by now.
 
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Correct. CommutAir’s block hour cost has set the bar to match. If they take any concessions to survive over XJT, then it seems unlikely we could get close enough to their number to be chosen.
 
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Zero-G

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Putting you’re feelings of nausea on the topic aside, could you guys really picture United keeping CA as their only 50 seat operator. Aren’t ops a goat-rope enough now with them in the diluted picture. Unfortunately, UA doesn’t consult me on such topics.

...and the 175s are gone because the ASA guys, that got the seniority boost over the XJT pilots in the integration, cost XJT the 175s by calling in too sick to commute that first year. There‘s no secret plot involved there.
 

Fozzie Bear

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Basically United wants only one erj operator. Since Commute Air makes less than us, you see where this going. Drop your price to there level or we go away. I'm sure they have already decided who is going away by now.
Seems you called it accurately :(
 

suitcase

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So now that I've had a couple of days to digest this truly unbelievable event, I'm still sitting her thinking WTF just happened? This is like a company hiring the boy in the mail room to run the company over the most qualified senior manager who has been groomed for the past two years to run the company. Is there anyone here who honestly even thought that commute air was not the next airline to go away months ago? I truly did not even know they were still flying till United sent out their announcement. They were just an after thought with their 20 planes. Why would United even want such a insignificant airline even flying for them? Now they are the go to airline? Like what was mentioned above, aren't they just a goat rope operation? Explain to me how we just signed a 10 year contract and that means absolutely nothing legally? We out perform everybody, have been for the last 18 years and yet you give mail room boy the keys to the house? I do not remember being given any concessions to vote on? Yet, daily discussions had been going on about our future without our knowledge. How do they know what we would have accepted given a proposal. 3,500 employees on the street which means depending on family size could easily be over 15,000 people with no money coming in and our useless leader sends out a company memo touting how unprecedented our stats are, while saying how ironic it is that we now contemplate our Sunset from United flying? Is this guy completely out of his F ing mind? I'm quoting " What will top it is when we do the same in August all the way through December. We may lose many things but not our capability, integrity, dignity and pride". OMFG this coming from our President. He took over and we loose our 175's, get to be the go too largest operator of the 145, which by the way we were 18 years ago and nothing to brag about it. The one plane that nobody wants to fly on and nobody wants to work on. Now we are shutting our doors a few days after he takes over. United has spent more money transfering the titles of our airframes back and forth than any savings they will get from CA. Does anyone really believe they are going to wind us down and we will still be flying through December? Our 175's were gone in three months for all intent and purposes, and that was suppose to be almost a year wind down. We will be gone on October 1st. How in the hell can CA even staff our 145 plus theirs? This is the biggest dog and pony show I've ever seen, I did some research and we are the first airline in US aviation history that had brought on a new larger type of aircraft on property and everything that goes with it and then turned around and few days later and gave them to their competition. And in return for our old 15 year old airplanes back. Not only to their competition, but the very Airline that had made it their personal goal to shut us down. And our President tried to make that a thing to be proud of? We all understood there were going to be furloughs, but a complete shutdown of a large airline to someone so small that nobody even knows who they are? There was twice the news coverage about trans state and the other guys going away than anything even being mentioned about our demise, we will be the largest airline in the United States to go out of business in years. Air Wisconsin and Go Jets are viable operations and were not? I do not care what anybody says this was not about money, having a job is better than not having a job and i'm sure we all would have sucked it up and taken whatever they were offering to survive this pandemic. If we lost our Airline because the pilot group makes to much and would not accept a lower amount and now everybody is on the street I would be very very upset. I guess we will never know the truth, I personally am surprisingly glad this has happened, it has been an 18 year spiral down the toilet here, we've lost almost everything, almost everyone, almost any reason to even come to work and be away from our family's. Always being treated like some outsider, no gates, climbing stairs and ramps in the rain, the first to be cancelled, the last to take off. Our schedules have been a joke for so long, not only where we fly too but no commutable lines, broken planes, bad paint jobs, bad uniforms, no cleaners, cheap hotels, bad hotel vans, disrespectful gate agents , horrible passengers, blah blah blah. And recently doing for it min guarantee with no way to make any meaningful salary. The 50 seat market has been gone for 10 years now, there are no planes in the pipe line to replace it. Nobody wants it, nobody wants to work on it nor fly on it. Our 175's were our only hope of a future and they are the future and they took them from us. That was the day our future was sealed. So CA gets our old 15 year old planes and soon they will be gone also. I will never understand our current management and never understood our previous management, every decision they've ever made and have done were and are catastrophically wrong. Now we are no more. How Mesa is still a viable operation and we are not says everything.
 

SKYHAWK112901

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I’m heart broken and very disappointed too at the results. So many of us have worked tirelessly to make XJT a better company. It was all for nothing, ending in our demise. Now, having to start over at the bottom somewhere else makes me sick. God bless us all as we seek to make a new living.
 

Fozzie Bear

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Yeah that WAR report was an insult. "Look how good we are, look at our great figures, BTW here's you pink slip, oh an keep it professional." If we are so good why are we closing ? Consistently at the top of the stats. Almost always ahead of mainline. Hatchet job by CEO, not a coincidence I think that he was CEO of CA for a while. Hanley MKII.

So IAH is supposed to be becoming a 145 focus city, are the 400 pilots of CA going to up sticks and move here? Or are 400 of them trying to commute to IAH? That's going to cost CA a LOT of $$$$$ to uphold the hotel commute clause they have in their contract. Also if all their crews (FA's as well) are having to be positive spaced by UA when things return to "normal" that's a lot of revenue seats lost.

The hidden costs are going to make UA regret this. Just like Chautauqua did when they came to IAH. They flew a quarter of the flights that we did out of Houston back then, but ended up costing CO four times the amount each month that we did in rebookings, hotels, meal tokens etc. The difference they were paying per hour was 4 dollars. Yes you read that right, Chautauqua got the CPA because they were 4 bucks a block hour cheaper.
 
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dojetdriver

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Yeah that WAR report was an insult. "Look how good we are, look at our great figures, BTW here's you pink slip, oh an keep it professional." If we are so good why are we closing ? Consistently at the top of the stats. Almost always ahead of mainline. Hatchet job by CEO, not a coincidence I think that he was CEO of CA for a while. Hanley MKII.

So IAH is supposed to be becoming a 145 focus city, are the 400 pilots of CA going to up sticks and move here? Or are 400 of them trying to commute to IAH? That's going to cost CA a LOT of $$$$$ to uphold the hotel commute clause they have in their contract. Also if all their crews (FA's as well) are having to be positive spaced by UA when things return to "normal" that's a lot of revenue seats lost.

The hidden costs are going to make UA regret this. Just like Chataqua did when they came to IAH. They flew a quarter of the flights that we did out of Houston back then, but ended up costing CO four times the amount each month that we did in rebookings, hotels, meal tokens etc.The difference they were paying per hour was 4 dollars. Yes you read that right, Chataqua got the CPA because they were 4 bucks a block hour cheaper.
[/b]
It was proven by CAL back then, and by UAL multiple times previous, they really don’t give a **** about all that.
 

701EV

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..and the 175s are gone because the ASA guys, that got the seniority boost over the XJT pilots in the integration, cost XJT the 175s by calling in too sick to commute that first year. There‘s no secret plot involved there.
ZG, the sick stuff is garbage and you know it. But if you want to go with that then that blame ALPA. They signed a side letter to train pilots out of seniority order. The junior XJT pilots should have been trained first. Then the ASA pilots would have trained later.
 

Flying V

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Jun 24, 2005
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Chautauqua cost UA more than you can imagine. Just ask any IAH gate agent about the weight restrictions and number of positive space crew members that had to be seated and bumped UA revenue passengers. This cost UA a small fortune in Pax re bookings, hotel and meal vouchers. Not to mention what a nightmare it was for the gate agents working those flights, and the bad will it caused among the UA passengers. Remember when Chautauqua begged to use the Continental Express Weight and Balance method. Sorry Charlie, this method was designed and implemented by our engineers and it was approved by the FAA specifically for our use. United was able to pick up the tab to mod the Chautauqua EMB145s to increase their Max Landing Weight, which helped alleviate their weight restriction issues. That didn't help their performance any. In order to help improve Chautauqua's Pi$$ Poor performance, UA purchased an entire fleet of brand new custom built buses to serve the hardstand departures. Buses ain't cheap. Then UA built those temporary buildings to serve the hardstands. Those buildings weren't cheap. Chautauqua then argued that they needed actual gates in order to improve their performance. United bought out a long term agreement with the Airport Authority in order to give Chautauqua the two gates 85 and 85A that were being used by Northwest Airlines. This cost UA some serious coin. One of the stipulations was that if Northwest was going to give up those 2 gates and operate from Terminal A , there had to be a Presidents Club. So UA then had to foot the bill to create and staff a Presidents Club in terminal A. These were all incredibly expensive additional costs to UA associated with their cost savings plan to bring in Chautauqua. Nice work, Larry, ever wonder why he didn't last very long?
 

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