We need to stand up to TSA.

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CorradoBrankado

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Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
248
As per the new FIL regarding Whole Body Scanners... now we need to remove our wings!!??

So let me get this straight. Us ExpressJet pilots may no longer cut in line in IAH, and we're bullied by wheelchair pushers. Whilst CAL scabs and sky-hags bypass TSA altogether though their secret door.

Rampers may bypass security as well!? As well as gate agents? And TSA employees. They have unlimited access to the airplanes, why aren't they clearing security?

Do you want to go from the Terminal A bus around the corner, into the crew room?? Nope... can't do it. Gate agents, rampers, wheel chair pushers, Chelsea, TSA, AirServ morons, Yes, they certainly can, and do!

TSA has, in past, called us the 'last line of defense' in Homeland Security... why then, are we treated like the problem??

What do we need to do?? The company isn't helping us. The union doesn't seem too involved.

Ideas?
 

TheBills

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Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
2,997
What happens when you cut in line? Ive been doing it everywhere, and passengers seem to be fine with it, and if their not, who cares. TSA is a false sense of security for the USA.
 

ipilot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,682
I just smile and tell them we have to go warm the plane up for them. 99% of the time nobody blinks an eye.
 

superdantx

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Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
1,749
Just refuse the whole body scan, if they don't then allow you through a conventional magnetometer, then they will have to wand/pat down. To be honest I will not be removing my wings every day at security, just to much of a PITA.
 

DTM212

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
620
F that.

Go ahead and pat me down. I'll pass on the extra radiation, thank you. Not to mention the hassle of putting on/taking off wings. Where am I supposed to unbutton my shirt and put my wings on straight? The security line? This is too much.

I wonder how many flights will go out late before the airlines get behind crewpass and/or employee lines/doors, etc?

I'm sure people will love to see their flight crews manhandled like suspects.

http://i41.tinypic.com/t9xgyo.jpg
 

Harder

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Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
984
I will not be removing my wings. They are a required part of the uniform. Fix your machine.
 

SpatialD

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Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
2,951
Folks, please stop and think about this for a minute. I'm working on some very real strategies for dealing with all this myself, and will share when I have a clearer head as to how I intend to proceed. But for now, please consider:

Hopefully, we don't have to discuss the scanners themselves too much - they're appalling and a total violation of citizens' privacy, personhood, etc. I watched a guy and his wife and little girl go through one recently and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. I wanted to stop him and say, "Dude, WTF???" as his wife stood inside the scanner with her arms raised like she was getting a mammogram or something. People move like sheep through those things without even stopping to think about what's really happening. I have to stop talking about that now before I blow a fuse.

But is being stopped and frisked by a government agent as you go about your lawful business - whether you're an airline employee or just an ordinary member of the traveling public - an acceptable alternative? Personally, I cannot consent to nor accept unwelcome physical contact any more than having images of my naked body being viewed by government personnel as a routine part of my daily commute to work. If I'm not under arrest or a suspect in some known threat to air transportation security, the feds have no grounds to invade my privacy and personal space in this way. It is an outrage beyond any measure of reason, an assault on liberty, a gross overreaching of the state, and a very significant step on the road back to the sort of tyranny many of our forbears and the founders of this society fought and often died to escape and abolish.

The real question, then, is WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH EVERYBODY??? Why is ANYONE tolerating this? And where do you suppose it'll end? I don't know about the rest of you, but this is where I draw the line. I'm not waiting for it to get worse before I say enough is enough. THIS is enough. Stay tuned...
 
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V2+15

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Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,998
Hear what you're saying Spatial, but in the meantime, to avoid the extra radiation I will be refusing the full-body scan and requesting a pat down WITH A SUPERVISOR PRESENT. I will be a recalcitrant SOB and make this process run as smoothly as possible...FOR ME. If the plane goes out late, so be it..."out late due to security". I WILL NOT be patted down without a supervisor (and possibly a LEO) standing nearby as witness.
 
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CorradoBrankado

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Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
248
The real question, then, is WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH EVERYBODY??? Why is ANYONE tolerating this? And where do you suppose it'll end? I don't know about the rest of you, but this is where I draw the line. I'm not waiting for it to get worse before I say enough is enough. THIS is enough. Stay tuned...
This is exactly where I am coming from. I am sick and tired of laying back and saying "thank you sir, may I have another". We are the most responsible, most educated and least risk employees at the airport, but they continue to impose new regulations on us while taking away the very few amenities that remain.

And V2+15, you're spot on... NO WAY they're getting me into that ridiculous, multimillion dollar radiation spigot...

And SpatialD, I look forward to hearing what you have!!
 

heckler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
583
It wont be very comfortable but I'm going to use some metallic thread and sew the words F**K YOU into my underpants. Maybe a smiley face too.
 

PSUPilot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
528
Folks, please stop and think about this for a minute. I'm working on some very real strategies for dealing with all this myself, and will share when I have a clearer head as to how I intend to proceed. But for now, please consider:

Hopefully, we don't have to discuss the scanners themselves too much - they're appalling and a total violation of citizens' privacy, personhood, etc. I watched a guy and his wife and little girl go through one recently and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. I wanted to stop him and say, "Dude, WTF???" as his wife stood inside the scanner with her arms raised like she was getting a mammogram or something. People move like sheep through those things without even stopping to think about what's really happening. I have to stop talking about that now before I blow a fuse.

But is being stopped and frisked by a government agent as you go about your lawful business - whether you're an airline employee or just an ordinary member of the traveling public - an acceptable alternative? Personally, I cannot consent to nor accept unwelcome physical contact any more than having images of my naked body being viewed by government personnel as a routine part of my daily commute to work. If I'm not under arrest or a suspect in some known threat to air transportation security, the feds have no grounds to invade my privacy and personal space in this way. It is an outrage beyond any measure of reason, an assault on liberty, a gross overreaching of the state, and a very significant step on the road back to the sort of tyranny many of our forbears and the founders of this society fought, and often died, to escape and abolish.

The real question, then, is WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH EVERYBODY??? Why is ANYONE tolerating this? And where do you suppose it'll end? I don't know about the rest of you, but this is where I draw the line. I'm not waiting for it to get worse before I say enough is enough. THIS is enough. Stay tuned...
I have no problem with them doing it to passengers...but not to crews. Absurd...especially the wings part.
 

ipilot

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Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,682
The problem is the majority of the public only travels once or twice a year. You won't find anyone of them launching a campaign against this. Most are just happy to feel secure and are willing to put up with being electronically strip searched if it means big scary Terrorists don't hijack their airplane. Those of us who do have to do this day in and day out are few and far between and I doubt we'll get much sympathy when our personal privacy is up against "letting the terrorists win"
 

V2+15

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Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,998
Yea, cuz that's really important!!!
No it's not, but in my "silent protest" I will make it as big of a pain in the azz for them to pat me down than they do to have me go through security in the first place. See where I'm going with this? If all of a sudden even 30 pilots showed up at a security station and demanded a pat down with a supervisor AND LEO present, it would send their goat rope of an operation into a further tailspin. Ya gotta learn how to fight fire with fire, yound padawan.

Afterthought...additionally this "full-body scan" is just another expensive twist down the lane of "Smoke and Mirrors".
 

dusk

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Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
631
Refuse.

Inconvenience them instead of us being inconvenience. This is the only way things will change.
 

erjpilot7

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Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
305
No it's not, but in my "silent protest" I will make it as big of a pain in the azz for them to pat me down than they do to have me go through security in the first place. See where I'm going with this? If all of a sudden even 30 pilots showed up at a security station and demanded a pat down with a supervisor AND LEO present, it would send their goat rope of an operation into a further tailspin. Ya gotta learn how to fight fire with fire, yound padawan.
I agree I'd do the same thing. And I'd "encourage" every passenger in line to insist on the same treatment. As a side note, I know they wear gloves and all, but imagine all the bacteria that would unnecessarily be exchanged with this method. I'm thinking the "sick call phenomenon" might get "worse."
 

V2+15

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Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,998
How about our duly elected Union representatives get involved with this and write Captain John Prater, ALPA President, a letter stating that NO PILOT employeed at ExpressJet Airlines will be walking through a full-body scanner and that Captain Prater should encourage all other airlines do the same.

Just spiff-balling here...sometimes ya just gotta cut off the head.
 

Time2Spare

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Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Messages
2,417
I realize you guys are going to flame the heck out of me for this, but really, I just read the FIL and it says the full body imager is optional. You don't want to take all your flair off, then go for the pat down. I just ask them to scratch in the appropriate places while they're doing it. Saying you're going to delay a flight for this is kinda like the whole delay the flight for paperwork stance cause none of the computers or printers ever work, or the delay a flight cause of the Terminal E security BS. You're never going to delay a flight because you refused a full body scan. Sorry for calling you out on it. You may now return to your chestbeating exercise.

T2S
 

V2+15

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,998
I realize you guys are going to flame the heck out of me for this, but really, I just read the FIL and it says the full body imager is optional. You don't want to take all your flair off, then go for the pat down. I just ask them to scratch in the appropriate places while they're doing it. Saying you're going to delay a flight for this is kinda like the whole delay the flight for paperwork stance cause none of the computers or printers ever work, or the delay a flight cause of the Terminal E security BS. You're never going to delay a flight because you refused a full body scan. Sorry for calling you out on it. You may now return to your chestbeating exercise.

T2S
Get what you're saying and actually where I've been that had a full-body scanner, there was also a "normal" metal detector. The key here, T2S, is where do we as a pilot group draw the line in the sand and say "ENOUGH!"? Kinda like what's happening with management violating our CBA at will...

And believe me...it ain't chest-beating. I mean every word I've stated above. Be first in line for a pat down and your flight goes out on time. 22nd in a line of 30 getting a pat down? Sorry...I'll be late assuming there isn't an operating "standard" metal detector.
 
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