There is no god.

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  1. Jul 21, 2009 #1641

    juropilot

    juropilot

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    Kind of strange...
    I got an email notification that aussieflyboy replied to this thread, but found no reply from him or anyone else.

    Anyway...please, please, please, could you guys watch the following:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-518637672896741579

    It is a documentary by Ben Stein himself, titled "Expelled, no Intelligence Allowed".
    (whoever posted it on the google video titled it wrongly creationism vs. evolution, but this is not the case at all)

    This is a very interesting movie, I assure you.
    Please, do not take this as an attempt to make anyone a believer. I just believe it is good for all to learn more about what is going on.

    Any comments will be greatly appreciated, hopefully not all will be scornful and hateful.
     
  2. Jul 21, 2009 #1642

    judge

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  3. Jul 21, 2009 #1643

    aussieflyboy

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    Yes i tried to post twice on this thread and both times it disappeared... for some unknown reason??

    I simply asked if God could build a wall that he couldn't climb over??? I guess that paradox made one of the Mod's heads explode and they had to get rid of it...
     
  4. Jul 21, 2009 #1644

    Red Swingline

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    Wow, sure am glad you got to add that deep thought to the discussion. It would've been a shame had we all missed out on it.:rolleyes:

    Especially since it's been asked already more than once throughout this thread.
     
  5. Jul 21, 2009 #1645

    RIslander

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  6. Jul 22, 2009 #1646

    FlyXJTnow

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    The "Family Guy" creator is an Atheist. That's why I get a kick out of the humor. Some people don't get the joke is actually on them.
     
  7. Jul 22, 2009 #1647

    Paul Rosenberg

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    Hey all ... since your parents probably never asked YOUR permission to be bapitized ... YOU can now "Reverse the Curse" :D

    But read deeper into this article and you will discover that the Christian church "claims" that being baptized is irreversible :confused:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno


    Athiests Choose De-Baptism to Renounce Childhood Faith

    Up until last summer, Jennifer Gray of Columbus, Ohio, considered herself "a weak Christian" whose baptism at age 11 in a Kentucky church came to mean less and less to her as she gradually lost faith in God.


    Then the 32-year-old medical transcriptionist took a decisive step, one that previously hadn't been available. She got "de-baptized."


    In a type of mock ceremony that's now been performed in at least four states, a robed "priest" used a hairdryer marked "reason" in an apparent bid to blow away the waters of baptism once and for all. Several dozen participants then fed on a "de-sacrament" (crackers with peanut butter) and received certificates assuring they had "freely renounced a previous mistake, and accepted Reason over Superstition."
    For Gray, the lighthearted spirit of last summer's Atheist Coming Out Party and De-Baptism Bash in suburban Westerville, Ohio, served a higher purpose than merely spoofing a Christian rite.


    "It was very therapeutic," Gray said in an interview. "It was a chance to laugh at the silly things I used to believe as a child. It helped me admit that it was OK to think the way I think and to not have any religious beliefs."


    Within the past year, "de-baptism" ceremonies have attracted as many as 250 participants at atheist conventions in Ohio, Texas, Florida and Georgia. More have taken place on college campuses in recent years, according to Hemant Mehta, chair of the board of directors for the Secular Student Alliance, a group that promotes atheism among high school and college students. "If we're having a winter solstice or summer solstice get-together or some other event, we might say: 'Who wants to get de-baptized?' " said Greg McDowell, the Florida state director for American Atheists, an advocacy and networking group. "It's a bit of satire. People will play the fool by waving their arms in the air and saying, 'I got de-baptized!' But the paperwork is still legit."


    Some of the so-called "de-baptized" have used their certificates to petition churches to remove their names from baptismal rolls. One argument: they were baptized without their consent as children and should now be declared de-baptized. Some churches, however, aren't budging on what they regard as an irreversible sacrament.


    Atheist Gary Mueller recently mailed his de-baptism certificate to St. Bonaventure Catholic Church in Concord, Calif., and asked to be dropped from its baptismal record. The church told him, in effect, that he was all wet. "While we do not remove a name/person from a Baptism register, we can note alongside your name that 'you have left the Roman Catholic Church,' " the Rev. Richard Mangini replied in an e-mail. "I hope that God surprises you one day and lets you know that He is quite well."


    In Christian theology, baptism can't be undone. If a Southern Baptist renounces his or her baptism, then that person is usually presumed to have never received an authentic baptism in the first place, according to Nathan Finn, assistant professor of Baptist studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C.
    For mainline Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians, baptism is commonly understood as a sign or means of grace and a covenant that God maintains even when humans turn away, said Laurence Stookey, professor emeritus of preaching and worship at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington. He said "de-baptizers" misunderstand baptism when they caricature it as an attempt at magic.
    Baptism "is a kind of adoption where you become a child of God, of the church and of the family," Stookey said. "You can renounce your physical parents, (the church and God), but they cannot renounce you because you are their child. Anybody who makes fun of baptism probably hasn't gone into it in enough depth to know that."


    De-baptism efforts have been growing internationally in recent years. More than 100,000 Britons downloaded de-baptism certificates from the National Secular Society (NSS) between 2005 and 2009, according to NSS campaigner Stephen Evans. Upwards of 1,000 Italians requested de-baptism certificates prior to Italy's "De-Baptism Day" last October, according to Italy's Union of Rationalist Atheists and Agnostics.
    Public ceremonies to confer de-baptism, however, seem to be primarily an American phenomenon.


    "I think a de-baptism ceremony (in Europe) would strike a lot of secularists and atheists as kind of pointless," Evans said. "They would leave the ceremonies to the religious."


    Not all American non-believers have warmed to de-baptism rituals. Secularist Phil Zuckerman, a Pitzer College sociologist who studies apostates, said he would never take part in such an event because it "feels intrinsically negative" and "immature."
    Even so, he said, de-baptisms may serve a cathartic function for some participants, as well as a political one.


    "For a long time, non-religious people in the Bible Belt just kept quiet, but they aren't keeping quiet anymore," Zuckerman said. "I think that's largely a reaction to George W. Bush's presidency. (Atheists) were saying, 'The government is being taken over by very religious people. We need to stand up and say: 'We're here. We're secular. Deal with it.' "


    Atheist groups expect more de-baptisms in years ahead. Mehta, of the Secular Students Alliance, says college groups already bring blow driers to campus recruitment events, offering to de-baptize undergraduates on the spot.
    Meanwhile, organizers of de-baptisms are broadening their mockery to include other religions. At the American Atheists' national convention in Atlanta last April, the de-baptism event included a dance where women in burqas stripped down to red-sequined leotards, according to Blair Scott, the group's national affiliate director.


    The goal, he said, was to say blasphemy shouldn't be prohibited.


    "We made fun of Islam, we made fun of Hinduism, we made fun of Christianity with intent to be blasphemous on purpose to make a point" about a proposed anti-blasphemy initiative at the United Nations, Scott said. "It's not done with malice or intent to offend. But anytime you criticize religion or poke fun at what atheists would call the sillier parts of religion, you're going to offend somebody. There's just no way around that.
     
  8. Jul 22, 2009 #1648

    Boondocker

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    .......................
     
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  9. Jul 22, 2009 #1649

    aussieflyboy

    aussieflyboy

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    Haha I just like it because it's so concise. No other examples are needed.
     
  10. Jul 22, 2009 #1650

    Boondocker

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  11. Jul 22, 2009 #1651

    Goofy Boots

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  12. Jul 22, 2009 #1652

    Boondocker

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    ......................
     
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  13. Jul 22, 2009 #1653

    kidicarus5897

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    My opinion, but it was a stupid one sided extreemly biased "documentary." Of course, I was also dissapointed by "Religulous" as well. Either way, Ben Stein wants to know why ID was "expelled" from being taught in schools...............IT'S NOT SCIENCE! Bring it up in a philosophy or theology class, but NOT in the science classroom where it will be treated as fact. ...........However, if it was taught in school, I would DEFINATELY sign up for that class! The answer to every test question would be "God did it."
     
  14. Jul 22, 2009 #1654

    Boondocker

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    .................
     
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  15. Jul 22, 2009 #1655

    kidicarus5897

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    His movie was about ID not being taught in schools- that will basically encompass the existence of God (unless you want to argue that with ID, God is not necesarily the Intelligent Designer. Aliens maybe? Matrix? Computer program?) And as far as "theories" go, ID hardly qualifies. Intelligent design is right up there with the Flying Spagetti Monster, and if Stein wants ID to be "taught" in schools, I want the FSM to be taught in school too. I am also sure that Nazi's would like to see Mein Kampf as required reading in schools as well, should we apease them? Religion and science are as compatible as oil and water, and PFM has no place in the science classroom as an explination for the nature of the universe. Besides, the "watch found on a beach" argument is flawed.
     
  16. Jul 22, 2009 #1656

    Goofy Boots

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    Well Boondocker, isn't going back to kill Hitler the same paradox as killing yourself? Because if you kill Hitler then there would be no reason to go back in time to kill Hitler so you wouldn't end up killing Hitler so you'd go back to kill him of course... but then there would be no reason to go back to kill Hitler... In conclusion I don't see how the Hitler paradox is any different than your suicide paradox and I think that temporal paradoxes are worth talking about. Didn't you see Back to the Future? Or Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey? Or the Time Machine? Or Timecop?

    Of course it's an ethics issue as well because going back and messing with anything would be playing Flying Spaghetti Monster.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2009 #1657

    Boondocker

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  18. Jul 22, 2009 #1658

    juropilot

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    Well, at least someone watched it.
    "Ben Stein wants to know why ID was "expelled" from being taught in schools" Come on man, that is not true at all. The part of the movie you are referring to is about professionals loosing their tenures, even careers for just mentioning ID in their work.
    "ID is not science" you say. Fair enough. But is this science?: "One popular theory is that life started on the backs of crystals" (by prominent Darwinist Michael Ruse) Or "..it could be that in some earlier time a civilization evolved...and designed a form of life that they seeded onto this planet (by Mr. Richard Dawkins himself). So this is what prominent evolutionists say about origin of life, freely admitting that they have no clue (they said that too). Yet if you open any textbook that teaches about origin of life, it is taught as a fact that life started from primordial soup. Do you still think this to be science, or perhaps BS?
    Look, I certainly respect that you don't believe in God. I have no problem with that. But do you at least know what you believe?
     
  19. Jul 22, 2009 #1659

    preludespeeder

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    You attack the theories in your post yet you argue for something that is exactly the same. I have no relevant idea how earth became the way it did, but the current scientific hypothesis of a slowly built soup into life over time makes more sense then the flying spaghetti monsters, aliens, or whatever fairy tale higher power reason for living unproven guess religion is trying to shove down people throats.
     
  20. Jul 22, 2009 #1660

    FlyXJTnow

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    Maybe because its not science. Intelligent Design is just a new way of saying "Creationism". Its all ********!
     
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