Letter to Management re TSA

Help Support The Pipe:

nixon

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I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
Because we are already on the other side of the bullet proof door. We ARE in control of the airplane - hence making sure we can't take over the controls is a ludicrous notion.
 

SpatialD

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This has nothing to do with our career goals as it has EVERYTHING to do with protecting lives. The world is different as the terrorist threat is determined to destroy America and cause as much destruction of both lives and of our economy. Sure there has always been terrorists but their intent and following is much greater today than it ever has been. That alone makes the world a different place.

Sorry for the rant but I feel very passionate about this subject and for the protection of this amazing country.
Interesting point of view. Of course, if the founders valued their security more than liberty, this country wouldn't be so amazing, would it? In fact, it wouldn't be at all.

If we buy into the notion that protecting this amazing country requires subjecting ourselves to the tyranny of the state, then the terrorists have overwhelmingly succeeded in destroying America - rather, seducing us into destroying it ourselves.

It was the oppression of their own government at the time that incited the American Revolutionaries (whom the state labeled terrorists) to declare their independence, and the birth of this amazing country. Of course, all the king wanted was a few pennies on the price of tea and a stamp tax so he could protect them from the threat of wild and evil savages determined to cause as much destruction of both their lives and economy as possible. Why didn't they just pay what he asked? You'd think they would've been grateful for his protection.

There is nothing new under the sun. The world is not a different place. It's still the world.

And for the record Spatial, I think your letter would be much better directed at ALPA and your local congresspeople. I'm sure you'll say ALPA won't do anything, but if thats the case then maybe instead of clicking away at keyboards on the Pipe whining about things, take matters into your own hands and deal with it. Use them bennies to go talk to your congresspeople, your governor, whoever. Make a big enough stink and something will happen.
Yam, I still don't think you understand the main purpose of my letter. I'm not trying to make something happen here. I do support efforts elsewhere to correct this policy, but in this all I'm trying to do is let the company know where I stand and invite them (including you) to stand with me. I'm not whining about anything, nor am I asking for anything. I have sought clarification from TSA as to how this policy may affect my ability to report for work and am still waiting for an answer. In the meantime, I feel it's necessary to inform the company of my position based on the information currently published by the TSA and the recent FIL.

In response to all your ideological arguments, I think it's sufficient to refer you back to my letter itself. If, after contemplating these things, you are content to comply with the new program, I think the best I can do is respect your right to disagree. I do think your perspective is a bit naive, but you are hardly alone in that.

You think these whole body scanners are gonna stop terrorists? NO Ever heard of body packing? Ever seen what prisoners make inside a prison given just whats around them? Hell Im surprised a terrorist hasnt tried a body bomb yet. Stick some C4 and a detonator up the rectum and boom! A Whole Body Scanner isnt gonna catch that. A terrorist can just as easily make a knife or some other sharp instrument INSIDE SECURITY than they can bringing it from outside. But what if they try that? Are all of yall gonna start consenting to xrays to go through security? Cavity Searches? Just because it will "save lives". At some point you have to stop and say NO!
'zactly. And, on the question of crewmembers having to pass through security, I don't have any reservations in stating the obvious: even if we had to strip naked, bend over, and spread 'em every time we enter the secured area, we're still in control of the flight deck. So after all the appropriate background checks and everything, it ultimately comes down to a calculated leap of faith that the guys up front are friendly (and I don't mean that in a "bend over and spread 'em" sort of way).

“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security” Benjamin Franklin.


Crew Pass or nothing!
Right on. But as far as the crew pass thing goes, I think it's a no-brainer that subjecting us to pax screening is idiotic (see point above). Where I seem to differ from a lot of you is on the question of whether it is desirable - or even tolerable - for a government agent to stop someone who's just passing by and make them empty their pockets, frisk them, and all the rest before allowing them to carry on, just to be sure they don't have anything they're not supposed to. Would it be acceptable if they did this before allowing us to use the Interstate system, or the library, or the grocery store, or visiting the Grand Canyon? Will it be acceptable when you're traveling with your wife and kids to have some federal security guard who answered a job ad on a pizza box put his hands all over them, with particular emphasis (according to TSA guidance) focusing on "the area between the upper thighs and torso region," where the underwear bomber packed his load? Evidently, many of you would say yes, it is acceptable. Again, the best I can do is respect your right to disagree. But there's no freaking way I would subject my little children to such a horrific thing at the hands of a total stranger. And I won't be participating myself, either.

If I'm going to get naked or physical, it's going to be on my own terms with people I know and trust and there's a good chance of alcohol being involved. But when it comes to Big Brother trying to extend the reach of his dominion even to include my own body, I just don't think it's as much fun.
 

HelloFA

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Yam, I still don't think you understand the main purpose of my letter. I'm not trying to make something happen here. I do support efforts elsewhere to correct this policy, but in this all I'm trying to do is let the company know where I stand and invite them (including you) to stand with me. I'm not whining about anything, nor am I asking for anything. I have sought clarification from TSA as to how this policy may affect my ability to report for work and am still waiting for an answer. In the meantime, I feel it's necessary to inform the company of my position based on the information currently published by the TSA and the recent FIL.
I guess I fail to see the purpose in wasting your energy writing an verbose diatribe that one person will read, chuckle at, and delete.

But that seems to be the norm for you guys. Lots of whining, no action.
 

shinysideup

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Jun 30, 2006
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I'm Republican. I voted for GW. I'll be damned if Mullah Mullah gets through because some liberal junkie like you - thinks national defense is compromisable! laughable!!
The TSA won't prevent any terrorist from bringing through any bombs - their success rate was well under 1 in 4, if I remember the last test correctly.

The only thing they'll be able to do is prevent terrorists from washing their hair.
 

xjetfng

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May 26, 2007
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571
I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
We go through a 10 year FBI background check to get into this job, that is as good of security as you are going to get with pilots, after that it is faith. Is a body scanner, metal detector, pat down, etc. etc. going to stop a pilot from taking the freaking CRASH AXE! that is a required piece of equipment in the cockpit and chopping the other pilot up into pieces and then doing whatever they wanted with the plane??? It makes no logical sense to make a pilot go through security because when it is all said and done and the TSA has stolen everyone's water and shampoo, a pilot will still have at least 10 different pieces of safety equipment etc. in the cockpit that could be used as a weapon to subdue the other pilot and then would be able to do whatever they wanted with the aircraft without anyone ever knowing or being able to do anything about it until it was too late.

As for the traveling public, it is a matter of civil liberties. Do you agree with the constitution? Just parts of it? All of it some of the time but other times we can bend the rules just so I "feel safe"? At what point would you finally take a stand against an overreaching state that encroaches too far?

How will body scanners protect anyone from some nut who has C-4 shoved up his arse? What about a woman with breast implants filled with explosives? That's where things are headed next. These scanners will do nothing to protect anyone, only allow the state to extend its reach further and further over the people.
 
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xjetsig

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Apr 15, 2003
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Don't talk down to me just because I'm a "flight attendant". You aren't any better or smarter than me because you can push buttons and fly a plane.

I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
Hate to burst your bubble, but I can do your job. You cant do mine.
 

CorradoBrankado

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Jun 3, 2008
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248
Why are we listening to someone with a picture of a cute kittie, whose name is codename yam, who is "good friends" with a Tub Stacking *******... Like V2+15 and others have said; WE ARE NOT PASSENGERS!!!! Please guys, TAKE A FUKCING STAND, and say NO! Stop pussy-footing around when it comes to TSA... This is ludicrous.
SpatialD, great letter, I think it's a step in the right direction!
 

hou757

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Oct 23, 2005
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Interesting point of view. Of course, if the founders valued their security more than liberty, this country wouldn't be so amazing, would it? In fact, it wouldn't be at all.

If we buy into the notion that protecting this amazing country requires subjecting ourselves to the tyranny of the state, then the terrorists have overwhelmingly succeeded in destroying America - rather, seducing us into destroying it ourselves.

It was the oppression of their own government at the time that incited the American Revolutionaries (whom the state labeled terrorists) to declare their independence, and the birth of this amazing country. Of course, all the king wanted was a few pennies on the price of tea and a stamp tax so he could protect them from the threat of wild and evil savages determined to cause as much destruction of both their lives and economy as possible. Why didn't they just pay what he asked? You'd think they would've been grateful for his protection.

There is nothing new under the sun. The world is not a different place. It's still the world.



Spatial, My view is more for the "flying passenger" and this being an option for screening them. I think this is a great technology that needs to be used. Is it perfect? No.. But if it can stop one fool from getting somthing on board and killing innocent travelers then I'm all for its use. I agree that as a crew we should have Crew Pass.
 

xjetfng

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May 26, 2007
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571
My view is more for the "flying passenger" and this being an option for screening them.
So only crew members deserve to have their civil liberties upheld and only after they pay ALPA to lobby Congress etc. to do so. "Flying Passengers" don't deserve to have their civil liberties respected?
 

hou757

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Oct 23, 2005
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So only crew members deserve to have their civil liberties upheld and only after they pay ALPA to lobby Congress etc. to do so. "Flying Passengers" don't deserve to have their civil liberties respected?
How is that any different than us bypassing security now without these scanners in place and "paying passengers" having to be screened while we don't at select places? If these scanners are used as they are intended and are not abused I have no problem with their use. If abuse becomes a serious problem then shut them down. For now I say they are worth a try.
 

SpatialD

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Dec 19, 2005
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I guess I fail to see the purpose in wasting your energy writing an verbose diatribe that one person will read, chuckle at, and delete.

But that seems to be the norm for you guys. Lots of whining, no action.
Sigh. I'm going to try to break it down one more time, so simple that even a kitten could understand.


  1. The TSA has announced, and the company has informed the pilot group directly, of changes to the screening policy to which I do not consent.
  2. Recognizing that the day may be fast approaching when I reach an impasse in the security line with some flunky who won't let me in the door, I anticipate a potential conflict which may be likely to affect the operation.
  3. Being a responsible, all growed-up professional, I'm taking a proactive approach to the situation rather than waiting until said day to call my chief pilot and tell him I can't get to the gate to work my flight because I refuse to step into the government's peep show machine or turn my head and cough for the man in the blue shirt, to which said chief pilot would likely reply, "Didn't you get the FIL? Why did you wait till now to tell us about your conscientious objections?"
  4. I have included background information and other details to ensure that anyone who gives a shite will have a clear understanding of the issues at stake and the thought process behind my position. In this regard, I am simply appealing to the common interest we all share in this situation as human beings and stakeholders in the air transportation industry.
  5. If you, or the actual recipients of my letter disagree with me on any of these points, it does not bear on my convictions in the least. Therefore, I still feel it's my duty to communicate my dissent early and in no uncertain terms (see point #3 above). If my message gets brushed off, so be it. Due diligence has been served on my end, which is all I'm trying to do here.
Hope that makes sense now. If not, maybe somebody can translate it into Purrrrsian.

How is that any different than us bypassing security now without these scanners in place and "paying passengers" having to be screened while we don't at select places? If these scanners are used as they are intended and are not abused I have no problem with their use. If abuse becomes a serious problem then shut them down. For now I say they are worth a try.
The difference is that, while the previous screening program was still an unnecessary annoyance for us, it didn't violate anyones civil rights - ours or the pax's.

We now bypass security in a few places where metal detectors are in place. Where the scanner/frisking program is up and running, I haven't seen anything to indicate that there will be another option for pax or crew (except where they have crew pass, perhaps). I've seen the scanners once or twice, but always with the metal detectors in use as well. They specifically directed me to the metal detectors, but the pax were being ushered into the scanners like sheep with no clue what was even going on as far as I could tell.

And for those who aren't familiar, here's what's going on:

 
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Plan B

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Aug 12, 2010
Messages
96
Don't you have a flight attendant forum to go play in? Your naivety does not fit in here.
Wow, I'm shocked that you would be so condascending and disrespectful. Everything else that you lean toward in your writings are so relevant and insightful....

You disappoint me.
 

Dane Weiss

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Apr 17, 2003
Messages
2,212
I just want my toothpaste back...nice letter dude even though i think sending it to management is a waste of your time, some guy way back there had it right congress or your senator is the way to go...there's a trash bin in houston waiting for it right under our ceo's secretary desk...IMHO.
 

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