Letter to Management re TSA

Help Support The Pipe:

judge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
3,024
2 questions:

1. Has anyone personally ever been asked to go through one of these machines as a working crew member?

(Every time I encounter one I am instructed by TSA to bypass)

2. Can you not just refuse it?

(I know, I know, but then you get the pat down)

Anyway, I agree with you spatial, but I think you are just wasting your breath on this one. I hope I am wrong.
 

SpatialD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
2,951
I'm Republican. I voted for GW. I'll be damned if Mullah Mullah gets through because some liberal junkie like you - thinks national defense is compromisable! laughable!!
Man, you really are a Republican, aren't you? I'm not sure what part of my position makes me a liberal (I think your comment was directed toward me). Did you mean to say libertarian? In any case, what I am NOT is a servile, state-worshiping sycophant. 'Mullah Mullah' is not the primary threat - it's the overstepping encroachment and tyrannical designs of certain elements within our own government (spanning both sides of the fence) that we should be protecting ourselves against. Read a history book. There's nothing new about what's going on here.

Well if you want them to laugh at you, sure.

Remove the part that you direct to management, and just send this to your senator/congresspeople instead.
Um, who do you think is behind this lusty grab for state control over our lives? Only the least significant, least influential congresspeople, and no Senators, would back me up here.

Sounds like maybe my letter wasn't as clear as I thought. I'm not going through the scanners, and I'm not going to let them put their hands on me. Being laughed at wouldn't change that.

This letter isn't a bleeding heart attempt to change the policy per se. It's my effort to be proactive in communicating my position to the company before I am unable to report for work one day on account of the TSA not letting me in the door.

2 questions:

1. Has anyone personally ever been asked to go through one of these machines as a working crew member?

(Every time I encounter one I am instructed by TSA to bypass)

2. Can you not just refuse it?

(I know, I know, but then you get the pat down)

Anyway, I agree with you spatial, but I think you are just wasting your breath on this one. I hope I am wrong.
1. Until very recently it has only been in the test phase. The FIL on this was prompted by the TSA's recent announcement that they're taking it to the next level. Their communication seems to indicate that it's WBI or a frisking every time you pass through one of these check points, but I'm not sure if it has actually been fully implemented anywhere yet. Nevertheless, the TSA has announced it, and the company has passed it on to us, and they haven't communicated any alternative to scanning or frisking.

2. Sure, you can refuse the scanners. You can also refuse being felt up. I refuse both. But I guess they can also refuse to let you in - and there's the rub, and the primary purpose for my letter. If I were trying to change the world, I probably would be wasting my breath. But I'm just letting my employer know where I stand, as I mentioned above.
 
Last edited:

RIslander

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
445
I can see both sides of the argument - but it only takes one radicalized 20something with nitrate filled diaper to put your msierable career expectations to pasture for good.
Right, because people age 30 and over never do anything wrong.
 
Last edited:

xjetsig

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
1,614
I'm Republican. I voted for GW. I'll be damned if Mullah Mullah gets through because some liberal junkie like you - thinks national defense is compromisable! laughable!!
Wow, someone must have run out of Skoal cherry flavor.
 

xjetfa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
678
I'm amazed that our government won't secure our borders between Mexico and Canada but will...

...go to this level of inspection to secure the traveling public...where EVERYONE is profiled as a potential terrorist. This government goes to great lengths to secure airport property...guarded fences and electronic eyes and profiling EVERYONE who enters as a potential criminal.

Just maybe if the massive project of securing our borders was taken seriously...(if we could develop the MASSIVE Interstate Highway system during the 50's/60's, there is no reason why we can't secure our borders)...

...and EVERYONE entering the country is subjected to the same inspection level that the traveling public is subjected to...with our borders secured exactly like our airport property is...then maybe the traveling public and airline crews would not be subjected to these extreme levels of inspection.

I'm just wondering what's next? After this level of inspection is common, what will be the next level of inspection?
 

SF3Flyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
5,809
2 questions:

1. Has anyone personally ever been asked to go through one of these machines as a working crew member?

(Every time I encounter one I am instructed by TSA to bypass)

2. Can you not just refuse it?

(I know, I know, but then you get the pat down)

Anyway, I agree with you spatial, but I think you are just wasting your breath on this one. I hope I am wrong.
1. Yes. In ELP, they tried to make us go through it.

2. I did refuse and requested a pat down with a supervisor and LEO present. They would not get the LEO. They said I wasn't entitled to one, "unless I was going to be trouble."
 

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
If not allowed to opt out, I'll just request the pat-down. I will NEVER go through one of these scanners in uniform. Never. I promise.
 

HelloFA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,079
I have on good authority that they won't be making an appearance in Terminal A in EWR for quite awhile.

Frankly I fail to see what the issue is with these machines, and with the TSA in general. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is there a better man for the job? Absolutely. But until another group takes over (my vote is the military), it will have to do. Would you rather see no one there? Would you rather the safety of yourselves, your families, and your passengers be left up to:
-overworked and underpaid pilots
-overworked and underpaid flight attendants
-gate agents (i mean, really?, on this one. I've had to take beers from peoples hands as they boarded in IAH, you think that agent is going to notice if Jack or Mohammed is acting suspicious?)

You can shout smoke and mirrors all you want, but fact of the matter is these guys are doing something, even if its not perfect. And they don't like screening us just about as much as we don't like clearing through. But until a better system (crew pass, whatever)happens, if you don't like the machines (radiation, privacy, whatever) then take the pat down. It's not like they're going to be grabbing your boobs and balls (and if they do, its supervisor time). You don't have to be hostile, and demand an LEO (you aren't entitled to have one present), but if you want a supervisor, go ahead and ask. Serious guys, do you make this big of a stink when you're clearing security into a concert or up the Empire State building? Its part of the job, deal with it. Personally I'd much rather sacrifice 5 extra minutes a day than die because some fool decided blowing up an ERJ was a good plan.


And for the record Spatial, I think your letter would be much better directed at ALPA and your local congresspeople. I'm sure you'll say ALPA won't do anything, but if thats the case then maybe instead of clicking away at keyboards on the Pipe whining about things, take matters into your own hands and deal with it. Use them bennies to go talk to your congresspeople, your governor, whoever. Make a big enough stink and something will happen.
 

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
Its part of the job, deal with it. Personally I'd much rather sacrifice 5 extra minutes a day than die because some fool decided blowing up an ERJ was a good plan.
Don't you have a flight attendant forum to go play in? Your naivety does not fit in here.

Body scanners are NOT PART OF MY JOB.

If I am non-revving somewhere... OK. Not for WORKING CREW MEMBERS THOUGH.

You spend your extra five minutes disrobing and getting harassed to DO YOUR JOB. I'll pass. Flight crews should not be subjected to PASSENGER screening. period. Why can't you understand that?

Crew Pass... When?
 

HelloFA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,079
Don't you have a flight attendant forum to go play in? Your naivety does not fit in here.

Body scanners are NOT PART OF MY JOB.

If I am non-revving somewhere... OK. Not for WORKING CREW MEMBERS THOUGH.

You spend your extra five minutes disrobing and getting harassed to DO YOUR JOB. I'll pass. Flight crews should not be subjected to PASSENGER screening. period. Why can't you understand that?

Crew Pass... When?
Don't talk down to me just because I'm a "flight attendant". You aren't any better or smarter than me because you can push buttons and fly a plane.

I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
 

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
Well, maybe a little stretch here... But... Because... WE'RE NOT PASSENGERS!!!!

I am referring to working crewmembers only. Not non-revs or deadheads.

This is the part where I cannot "completely" answer that question in specific details. Partly because this is a public forum, and while I should be able to state the obvious, I do not feel comfortable doing so here. I would suggest looking up the history of crew pass, and why it was declared legal. There is a reason that the means exist for us to bypass the PASSENGER lines. The answers can be found there. Mix in a little old fashioned "common sense" and the answer becomes obvious.

If you really don't get it... I don't think I can explain it to you. :(

Edited to add: I apologize that I used the term naivety, and flight attendant in the same post. I was out of line.

The naivety of your post(s) shocked me beyond all comprehension though. Your job title is irrelevant to the discussion. I was out of line for mentioning it. I do my best to take raw emotion out of my posts. I failed to do that in this particular instance. I was in shock.
 
Last edited:

HelloFA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,079
I'm really only asking out of curiosity, as to why you feel that you are just above everything else, but I get it. You don't need to talk about dumbing down or anything like that because frankly its not necessary. Man up and give me the big boy answer, I'm smart enough to handle it.

I admit I am a little bit biased, because a close friend works for the TSA and I respect the **** out of what he does. Clearing security is a pain in the ***, but until your union, my union, and all the other parties involved want to step up and do something about it, you're just going to have to deal with it. So whats the point in getting all worked up (and being hostile to TSA?).
 

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
So whats the point in getting all worked up (and being hostile to TSA?).
Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for the TSA employees on the front line. They are just doing what they are told. I am not hostile to them. You have me confused with someone else.

I'm not all worked up about the TSA... It was your post that got me all worked up. ;) Honestly, I did not get that worked up. My bark is much worse than my bite.

Even though I feel that it is unnecessary, I will continue to go through the metal detector as I have been doing forever, until we get crew pass. After all, I don't have a choice, do I? I'll just have to "deal with it".

However, based on the details/instructions contained in the pilot FIL (not public info) regarding the body scanners, I will NEVER go through a body scanner to work a flight. They can start patting me down until we get crew pass. In 10+ years here, I have reached the limit of what I will be subjected to in order just to do my job.
 

HelloFA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,079
Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for the TSA employees on the front line. They are just doing what they are told. I am not hostile to them. You have me confused with someone else.

I'm not all worked up about the TSA... It was your post that got me all worked up. ;) Honestly, I did not get that worked up. My bark is much worse than my bite.

Even though I feel that it is unnecessary, I will continue to go through the metal detector as I have been doing forever, until we get crew pass. After all, I don't have a choice, do I? I'll just have to "deal with it".

However, based on the details/instructions contained in the pilot FIL (not public info) regarding the body scanners, I will NEVER go through a body scanner to work a flight. They can start patting me down until we get crew pass. In 10+ years here, I have reached the limit of what I will be subjected to in order just to do my job.
Hey, I'm taking the pat down too, and I think we all should. It just seems like some folks forget that the option exists and want to be ALL.UP.IN.ARMS. over something they don't even have to be subjected to.
 

kniltej

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
2,085
You think these whole body scanners are gonna stop terrorists? NO Ever heard of body packing? Ever seen what prisoners make inside a prison given just whats around them? Hell Im surprised a terrorist hasnt tried a body bomb yet. Stick some C4 and a detonator up the rectum and boom! A Whole Body Scanner isnt gonna catch that. A terrorist can just as easily make a knife or some other sharp instrument INSIDE SECURITY than they can bringing it from outside. But what if they try that? Are all of yall gonna start consenting to xrays to go through security? Cavity Searches? Just because it will "save lives". At some point you have to stop and say NO!
 

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
Hey, I'm taking the pat down too, and I think we all should. It just seems like some folks forget that the option exists and want to be ALL.UP.IN.ARMS. over something they don't even have to be subjected to.
Agreed.

Again... Sorry I was so cranky earlier. Not enough coffee.
 

SAABoroowski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
3,944
Don't talk down to me just because I'm a "flight attendant". You aren't any better or smarter than me because you can push buttons and fly a plane.

I'm not expressing a view in either direction, but why do you think you absolutely should not be subjected to passenger screening?
Really? I think your time would be better spent in the "galley" section..............
 
Last edited:

V2+15

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,998
Yam...you REALLY need to wake up and smell the Continental Roast. Let me state it plainly, like Unverified has...

WE ARE NOT PASSENGERS!!!

Why are we being treated as such??? Therefore I, and a VAST group of others, think it's INANE that we're going through security in the first place. Since I wasn't around pre-9/11, did WORKING/ON DUTY crew members ever go through security???
 
Last edited:

Unverified

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
754
Since I wasn't around pre-9/11, did WORKING/ON DUTY crew members ever go through security???[/SIZE]
Yes. But it was much easier back then. There were no lines, and you were never harassed when you tried to cut, if no crew line.

There were a LOT more stations where we bypassed all together though.
 
Top