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Thread: If you are a commuter, PBS is a 100% decline in quality of life for you!

  1. #121
    Amen!! Why do people think PBS builds the actual routes or has a contract built within it. Don't we input all our contract language? Why can't we be the airline with the first ever PBS system that actually works..don't hate. Im just well rested cause i slept in.

    Quote Originally Posted by peasy View Post
    What makes you think everyone in the top 30% wants commutable trips? Some of us figured out that one of the biggest enhancements to QOL is living where you work. And for those of us in the top 10% who live in base, what makes you think I want your 4 day trips? I'll stick with my day trips and 2 days thank you very much!

  2. #122
    Greg do you mind if i steal your post? And dare to say i agree with you 100%

    ravi

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Stone View Post
    It seems to me that the complaints boil down to one thing; Seniority.

    I find it funny that a lot of the voices that complain about the possibility that junior people won’t be able to improve their schedules with trips that come off of the lines held by more senior people are also those who complain about senior pilots who chose to stay at this company.

    Here’s the reality; If you don’t want to work in a merit based type of operation (and I’m quite sure most of you don’t), then you work in a seniority based operation. Senior people have more than those who are more junior. Period. Furthermore, you should get used to that reality because that’s the way it is at Delta, Southwest, USAir, or wherever else it is you think you deserve to work. And when you get there they are not going to change things to suit your scheduling desires and whatever else you think you deserve.

    Thus far in my career I’ve chosen to stay here. I may not be here in 20 years. I may not be here in 2 years. But that’s my decision to make and mine alone. I don’t need to explain it to you or anyone else here and could not possibly care less whether anyone here agrees with the choices I’ve made. However, the fact remains that I am relatively senior and that seniority should mean something. One of those things is the ability to have a better schedule than someone junior to me. Sounds harsh but I’d bet a paycheck that every last one of you socialists that wants to move on to a major believes that when you get to be a senior wide-body captain at your major of choice you will deserve the same.

    I’ve posted here before that I’m not a fan of our current, socialistic bidding/trip trading system. I’ve also been criticized for being out of touch with junior pilots because I’m senior. I don’t see it that way. Seniority should mean something. Not everything. But something. I should be able to bid for a schedule that works for myself and my family (to the extent that my relative seniority can hold). I don’t want to take my chances by bidding into a potential transition conflict and also ensure that I’m off and available for the ILIW so I can be first on the enter key in competition with a hundred other guys. All so a junior lineholder can get a xmas off, 18 day off, commutable, 90 hour schedule because they are trip trading savvy.

    All of the above holds true for relative seniority all over the company. I've flown with numerous senior FO's who have chosen to stay in their seats for a variety of reasons but who also expect to be able to take advantage of their position on the list (in seat or base) to hold a good schedule. As cruel and harsh as it is sometimes (Former ACA people for example), seniority should mean something.

    Lastly, none of this means anything if the work rules aren’t solid and the pairings are crap. I trust Steve and co. to have researched this (as well as Smartpref itself) and to negotiate what we need. The genius is in the details. Not three letters.

    Fire away.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by mckpickle View Post
    No it's not. If they put in the PBS that they want with work rules they want, it's to their advantage. If we get a system WE want and work rules WE want, then it's to ours. It just helps them cover their operation more effectively.
    That's exactly the problem.

    It helps the company cover their operation more efficiently.

    That means a loss of relative seniority for me. By covering their operation more efficiently, they need a few less lineholders - thus a few pilots are pushed down to reserve. Also, they need fewer reserves, so a few more captains are pushed down into the right seat.

    Why would pilots want something that reduces demand for pilots?
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  4. #124

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    Greg Stone is offline
    Quote Originally Posted by rav30 View Post
    Greg do you mind if i steal your post? And dare to say i agree with you 100%

    ravi
    What's mine is yours Ravi!

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by dojetdriver View Post
    You SHOULD be able to get a schedule that you don't have to touch if you DON'T want to. But along those lines, if one can't set up their preferences correctly or learn the software, it's the EXACT same thing. Doesn't matter the company that uses PBS, they're plenty of silverbacks that scream "I got screwed by PBS again!!!!!" And more often than not, it's because he's too stupid to set up his preferences correctly while a pilot junior to him does, and got a better schedule because of it.
    It is not the exact same thing. I cannot just set my preferences now and let the ILIW do it's thing while I'm off doing something else. The ILIW requires direct, split second timing based intervention and it's non-seniority based. It's based upon first-come, first-served, who has the best strategy. I have read posts by some of the very same people on the opposite side of my assertions indicating that they have a strategy for trading in the ILIW and that they (rightfully so) were not willing to share that strategy with others.

    I agree with you when you say that if someone refuses to learn how to use a bidding system and sets their preferences wrong that's their problem. However, there is a difference between that and trading.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by shinysideup View Post
    That's exactly the problem.

    It helps the company cover their operation more efficiently.

    That means a loss of relative seniority for me. By covering their operation more efficiently, they need a few less lineholders - thus a few pilots are pushed down to reserve. Also, they need fewer reserves, so a few more captains are pushed down into the right seat.

    Why would pilots want something that reduces demand for pilots?
    No, they would actually need more lineholder in a PBS environment because total credit (vacation, training, leaves etc) are calculated into the whole solution. The way we do it now only block is calculated. We run in excess of 20% reserves as a target. Thats just freaking retarded that 1 in 5 people need to be on reserve so they can cover all open time that remains after the SLIW.
    Steve McKnight



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  7. #127

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    Call me stupid, but how about a LIW with PBS???? Eh? That way the whining junior folks get to try and fix the crap they were awarded, and the whining senior folks get a good schedule from the start. Input????
    Last edited by HowlinMad; 05-05-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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  8. #128

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    Elusive Napkin is offline
    Quote Originally Posted by MKFlying7 View Post
    Amusing that nobody remembers me
    Hahaha... I should have mentioned you! Sorry dude!

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by mckpickle View Post
    No, they would actually need more lineholder in a PBS environment because total credit (vacation, training, leaves etc) are calculated into the whole solution. The way we do it now only block is calculated. We run in excess of 20% reserves as a target. Thats just freaking retarded that 1 in 5 people need to be on reserve so they can cover all open time that remains after the SLIW.
    That is a very political answer and like a politician, only half true. I have no problem with what you just said.

    However PBS makes us much more efficient as a whole group especially when it comes to the transition period and training. Vacation is no big deal because vacation trips get dropped and assigned/picked up on a one for one basis. Transition and training trips usually get broken up in the middle creating at least two duty periods on the day it was broken and that happens hundreds of times a month. This is the fundamental reason any company wants PBS. Extra duty periods require pilots to be staffed/hired/upgraded. PBS gets the same block hours covered with less pilots.

    Sure with attrition we probably won't furlough and probably won't stop hiring or upgrading but all things equal we will not hire or upgrade on the same scale with PBS.

    Maybe PBS would make us more cost competitive so we might be able to steal some more mainline flying or even replace our ALPA brothers at eagle while they go to the street. Im salivating at just the thought of doing that. In that senario we would obviously hire an upgrade much faster than if we had line bidding and didn't get to steal that flying. We may steal it anyway even with line bidding though. Fact is that PBS makes us more efficient which means less pilots for a fixed amount of block hours.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive Napkin View Post
    Hahaha... I should have mentioned you! Sorry dude!
    I kinda like it that way

    haha

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