Health insurance

MJacobsen · 08-29-2008, 10:24 PM

Just curious what people out there are thinking about McCain's health care plans. Let me preface by saying that I'm not throwing down a dem vs rep hatchet here...I'm just curious what you all think about McCain's proposal to make health care premiums part of your taxable income? I guess I'm just not crazy about that idea.

Also, it seems to me that the proposed tax credit of $2500 for individuals (I think $5k for families) for those who aren't covered by employers doesn't seem like that much, but maybe I'm wrong about insurance costs and someone who is in the know can enlighten us on that subject.

And if he plans on paying for this with decreased tax breaks to employers who offer insurance, won't that effect us with more expensive/reduced benefits??

Thoughts?

Oh, and here's where I gleaned the above info for those who'd like to reference it:

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

Tax credits at heart of McCain's health care proposal - CNN.com

GasPasser · 08-29-2008, 11:07 PM

Well, before I got married last year (and got on the plan at my wife's employer), I paid for my own Blue Shield PPO at $92/Mo...pretty much full coverage. Tax credit would cover that. I know for people with pre-existing conditions it's exponentially higher. All I know is government-run healthcare would probably be as well managed as other Federal enterprises like the TSA, Amtrak, and the Post Office...that's not a risk I want to take.

lap · 08-30-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJacobsen

I'm just curious what you all think about McCain's proposal to make health care premiums part of your taxable income? I guess I'm just not crazy about that idea.

I just skimmed over his website and I can't seem to find that idea in it. I might have missed it but I haven't heard that idea before either. I'm not sure I would be crazy about that idea either. Where does it say that on his website?

Captain CAVEMAN! · 08-30-2008, 09:34 AM

If you consider a government run and mandatory health care system a good thing... more power to you.

Before you cement your vote on the topic I would invite you on a field trip to the closest military base to speak with retirees and dependents. On our way home I would like to run you past the local VA hospital, and then the ER of the inner city hospital. Common theme - all provided on tax payers dollars.

Drugs will not be available, appointments nearly impossible to get for less than three months out, "doctors" too busy to really know the patients or spend enough time with them (here have a "vitamin M" for your cancer and broken bones), and best of all you are welcome to show for your SPACE AVAILABLE/STANDBY appointment - but if you ever miss you are ejected from the program permanently.

I almost guarantee that once the govt provides health care, you will find Politicians are not included/participants. Take it a step further and you may find "private" medical clubs that cost 10 times your current rate and/or underground programs not subject to regulation. This paragraph is just my paranoia speaking.

But if that is the level of service you currently get, cool. vote your conscience.

MJacobsen · 08-30-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lap

I just skimmed over his website and I can't seem to find that idea in it. I might have missed it but I haven't heard that idea before either. I'm not sure I would be crazy about that idea either. Where does it say that on his website?

Sorry 'bout that. He doesn't mention it on his website at all. Evidently, from what I can discern, this proposed tax was mentioned back on April 29, when McCain unveiled his health care plan to the media. Here are some more sources mentioning it (I've done my best to eliminate sources that are radically partisan....I can't stand sources that are blatantly promoting either left or right agendas. The CNN sources probably falls in there, though, so sorry.)

A decent article here:
McCain's Health-Care Proposal

"McCain would also end the employer tax exemption--meaning that if your employer spends the average $12,000 a year on family health insurance for you, you would now have a tax bill on $12,000 of benefits."

- from The Health Care Blog (which appears pretty non-partisan) The Health Care Blog: An Analysis of Senator John McCain's Health Care Reform Plan By Robert Laszewski

Fact Check site:

FactCheck.org: McCain's $5,000 Promise

You can also Google it and find sources that you find reliable.

MJacobsen · 08-30-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain CAVEMAN!

If you consider a government run and mandatory health care system a good thing... more power to you.

Before you cement your vote on the topic I would invite you on a field trip to the closest military base to speak with retirees and dependents. On our way home I would like to run you past the local VA hospital, and then the ER of the inner city hospital. Common theme - all provided on tax payers dollars.

Drugs will not be available, appointments nearly impossible to get for less than three months out, "doctors" too busy to really know the patients or spend enough time with them (here have a "vitamin M" for your cancer and broken bones), and best of all you are welcome to show for your SPACE AVAILABLE/STANDBY appointment - but if you ever miss you are ejected from the program permanently.

I almost guarantee that once the govt provides health care, you will find Politicians are not included/participants. Take it a step further and you may find "private" medical clubs that cost 10 times your current rate and/or underground programs not subject to regulation. This paragraph is just my paranoia speaking.

But if that is the level of service you currently get, cool. vote your conscience.

I see where you all are coming from on a government-run systems and the pitfalls therein, but you aren't exactly addressing what I was asking: McCain's proposal to tax your health care benefits and the proposed tax credits to cover your premiums (for those who don't have employer-offered coverage).

I understand why you don't like the Democrat's proposal. But I'm asking about the Republican proposal. I'm not hearing anything about why you like/support McCain's health plan....only that you don't like Obama's. (I'm wondering if I should infer that you simply don't like the Democrat's ideas, so anything the Republicans come up with is okay....as long as it's not the Democrats???).

lap · 08-30-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJacobsen

Sorry 'bout that. He doesn't mention it on his website at all. Evidently, from what I can discern, this proposed tax was mentioned back on April 29, when McCain unveiled his health care plan to the media. Here are some more sources mentioning it (I've done my best to eliminate sources that are radically partisan....I can't stand sources that are blatantly promoting either left or right agendas. The CNN sources probably falls in there, though, so sorry.)

A decent article here:
McCain's Health-Care Proposal

"McCain would also end the employer tax exemption--meaning that if your employer spends the average $12,000 a year on family health insurance for you, you would now have a tax bill on $12,000 of benefits."

- from The Health Care Blog (which appears pretty non-partisan) The Health Care Blog: An Analysis of Senator John McCain's Health Care Reform Plan By Robert Laszewski

Fact Check site:

FactCheck.org: McCain's $5,000 Promise

You can also Google it and find sources that you find reliable.

I'm not crazy about that idea. But I could see where his going with it. I kind of liked Bush's idea of making private insurance premiums tax deductible (over the line, ie. without having to itemize) up to $15,000 rather than making employee sponsored health insurance premiums non-exempt from taxes and giving everyone $5,000 tax credit on the other end. McCain's idea only cost more for people in the highest tax bracket. Everyone else comes out saving more. I'm still not sure about it though. I'll have to think about it some more.

I rather see the FairTax, where we eliminate all federal taxes and replace it with a national sales tax with a prebate up to the federal poverty limit. Then if you want to increase the prebate or issue a tax credit for health care, I would be way more inclined to look at that instead.

fazole · 08-30-2008, 03:40 PM

Here is an interesting insight from PBS on how healthcare works in other countries:

FRONTLINE:sick around the world | PBS

Note that in all these countries they have strict controls on lawsuit filing and awards.

MJacobsen · 08-30-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lap

I rather see the FairTax, where we eliminate all federal taxes and replace it with a national sales tax with a prebate up to the federal poverty limit. Then if you want to increase the prebate or issue a tax credit for health care, I would be way more inclined to look at that instead.

I very much agree.

youneek28 · 08-30-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lap

I rather see the FairTax, where we eliminate all federal taxes and replace it with a national sales tax with a prebate up to the federal poverty limit. Then if you want to increase the prebate or issue a tax credit for health care, I would be way more inclined to look at that instead.

The fairtax would not fix our real problem. I am aware that the fairtax would actually give the government more money than the current system. Shouldn't we be addressing federal government spending specifically the things that shouldn't be operated by the federal government? I don't know what would happen if the government had more money than they already do.