IHateBAMA

Happy Easter Rick. I am thankful that HE chose the nails.

Cole Simon
IAH FO

2percent

Lenzilla, hey man i appreciate you post... i went to church all through high school.. the reason i went was a fine girl went.... i called myself a "Christian" but on the weekends smoked weed drank ect..for the record she didn't... and at times probably gave some bad looks to non believers.... my point is not every one who say thay are christians are truly Chrisrians...you will know a christian by their fruit.. that is what the Bible says... a reasearch team was going around knocking on doors and asking the folks if thay believed in Christ.... 93% of them said yes.. yet church attendance was at 33%... so not all so called Christians are TRULY christians.... the Bible says straight is the way and narrow is the way that leads to life... and not all people who call Lord Lord will enter.... that does not suprise me about the the guy who gave you the finger... sad.... and yes alot of so called Christians are hypacrits.... i used to be one..... today yes i still fall short but now i feel convicted and learn from my screw ups... but i am forgiven... that is my beliefs.... Ok so the perpose of my entire life now as a Crhistan is to glorify God and bring people to Christ.... and i dont want to affend you at all that is not my job... and look the marrage thing with your wife... the member in this church may have lived a life sort of like mine.... yes thay had sex drank to much before ect.... but with what thay believe now... let me ask if you believe in something would you take a stand for it...

UFOGUY

[quote=Lenzilla;221499]It is quite intentionally that I bring nothing to the table about how we are her (add an "e"). I don't believe in god, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't (add a comma) given proof. I don't have all the answers about our origin, our purpose, what's right/wrong (add a comma) moral/immoral, etc.. (either one dot or three, there is no such thing as two dots) {/QUOTE]

Wow, and you busted 2percent's chops about spelling and comma placement! Folks, if you are going to slam someone's grammar and punctuation, make sure you know what you are doing. This is laughable.

2percent

Biblical Prophecy: Daniel 9:25
A most compelling Biblical Prophecy is found in Daniel, chapter 9, verse 25. Written 500 years before the birth of Jesus Christ (the oldest preserved copy dating 200 years before the birth of Christ), it foretells the very day Christ would enter Jerusalem. The prophecy states: 69 weeks of years (69 x 7 = 483 years) would pass from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, until the coming of the Messiah. This is according to the Babylonian 360-day calendar, since Daniel was written in Babylon during the Jewish captivity after the fall of Jerusalem. Thus, 483 years x 360 days = 173,880 days. According to records found by Sir Henry Creswicke Rawlinson in the Shushan (Susa) Palace, and confirmed in Nehemiah 2:1, this decree was made on March 14th, 445 BC, by Artaxerxes Longimanus. Exactly 173,880 days later, on April 6th, 32 AD, Jesus Christ rode into Jerusalem upon a colt (fulfilling the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9). The world celebrates this day as Palm Sunday. Four days later, Christ was murdered upon the cross. Actually, the form of His execution and even His last words were foretold in Psalm 22. Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, fulfilling numerous other prophecies of our Messiah

That is a start.. from just one week in the Bible

i believe through faith God, Jesus. Holy Spirt..ect..so through faith i believe all the bible says and prophecy helps to solidify my faith....i think that answers your question..
not to mention Israel became a nation in 1948... and the book of Revelation..the things still to came... ask some questions hopefully i can get some of them. as for the question why did God create us i believe for fellowship with him...but it seems you ask a question and then come up with a wacky explanation.. so my question to you.... is this what you believe??? just buy reading your post you seem very smart....if this is what you believe explain them...and as for the books you list i have not read.. and your horoscope was just a general statement.. not that you road into town on a colt on a certain day and people you didn't even know through palm leafs down for you to come riding into town..or that your bones wouldn't be broken on the cross..although most people in that time had to have their legs broken so they would die sooner....or was it that specific...why do you call it bury me head in the sand just because i have faith... you also said make my own purpose... i don't have to, mine was made for me... and is explained in the Bible... again i am not here to make anyone mad... the Bible says "without love i have nothing"... just defending my beliefs just as your trying to do...

Lenzilla

[quote=UFOGUY;221587]You're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I'll be more careful next time.

__________________
Len Civitano

Lenzilla

[quote=UFOGUY;221587]
I have way too much time on my hands today...

Found one of your posts, UFOGUY...

"Sweet please do, I'd love to know what getting closer to having a line is like!
...wait, it wouldn't matter, I'm still screwed."

In need of some punctuation after "sweet," perhaps? HAH! Who's punctuation skill is laughable now??????

Comma police are on the case.

Just funnin'. No ill will intended, honestly.

__________________
Len Civitano

UFOGUY

[quote=Lenzilla;221606]D'oh! Oh, you'll find plenty more too! Comma, comma, comma chameleon. Is that how the song goes? I wasn't saying that your skills are laughable, just the fact that we all slam eachother for punctuation on an online forum! Why isn't this thread dead yet?

Lenzilla

[quote=UFOGUY;221628]You're right about the slamming. I agree with you. In fact, I regret getting on 2percent's case about the grammar issue (I still stand by the other stuff, though). 2percent, if you're reading, my apologies. Back to wasting my day away.

__________________
Len Civitano

Yariv

the old testament if full of messiah prophecies. the new testament full of their fullfilment... problem is the new testament was written a couple hundred years a.d., and contains conflicting details which tell me the writers did not have actual knowledge of these details, or they wouldn't conflict. my conclusion is that the writers of the gospels actively made the jesus story FIT the prophecies. for example, the old testament says that the messiah, son of david, will rule the world and free israel from foreign powers. clearly this did not happen literally, but the gospels suggest that joesph was of david's line (without providing any additional proof, nor is there any third party proof, and david lived 1000 years before joseph, not to mention that supposedly joseph had no part in jesus' conception... jesus did not free the jews from foreign powers, nor did he rule the world. so if you concentrate on the partial list of prophecies that the gospels claim to fulfill, you'll believe jesus is the messiah. if you read the gospels that weren't included in the bible (like thomas) you'll find conflicting details. if you look at ALL the prophecies, you'll see that the gospels are not objective and much less convincing.



Israel became a nation because jews, persecuted by jesus's christians, created it without god's help. I say without god's help because the overwhelming majority of jews who participated in the creation of modern israel (late 1800's to 1948 ) were secular. look at photos from the period and you won't see any yamacas. I know this because this includes my family. and if you've actually been to modern israel you'll see that it is not at all a modern version of biblical israel, nor do 99% of the people there hold any significance to jesus.


if you read thru the previous 20 pages or so you'll see lots of unanswered questions, some of them from me.

if you believe god always existed, isn't it equally possible that the universe also always existed? without god?

why doesn't the bible ever mention anything that happened outside the narrow area of the middle east? such as events in china and south america that were going on at the same time as biblical events. how did those people become what they are today?

why do we have an appendix? a tailbone? why do babies in the womb have fur and gills for about a week and then it disappears?

if heaven awaits, and all that's required for entry is recognition of jesus on your deathbed, than why do we pray for people to get better when they're sick? wouldn't a cancer patient prefer heaven today over months of pain and suffering? shouldn't we pray for their quick death and entry into heaven? in the funeral we pray that they are in heaven... why wait?

I believe that we have a very narrow view of the universe. our understanding of what we are is based on what we see, therefore it will always be very limited. we will never know everything. However, this does not allow us to CREATE explanations based on things we can't see. (the word 'see' here means sense, calculate, and prove without doubt.)

I also believe that everything out there can be explained and understood, given enough facts. nature works according to a set of rules. we are just starting to understand those rules - einstein, newton and gallileo got us away from the old greek physics, and now quantum mechanics is improving on newton and einstein. with each new discovery my view is confirmed - it all fits together. nothing contradicts. (even einstein and quantum will fit toghether as soon as we refine our quantum theories) there is nothing outside of nature. there is no after life. there is no soul, no spirit, no magic, no alchemy, no ghosts, no santa claus, no psychics, and no miracles.

I also believe that you should doubt everything. doubt increases accuracy. while you should trust people (based on your judgement) you should never take anything anyone says as a "truth". there is no truth, only opinions. there is no reality, only perceptions. you should not take what I'm saying and believe it, you should hear it, consider it, and make up your own mind. if you like, accept it, but keep seeking more details to try and contradict it. we learn by seeking to show current knowledge to be incorrect or incomplete.

I also believe religion is a good thing. it does a lot of good, it causes people who otherwise may not be able to come up with their own purpose to have one. it causes people who may have an equal chance of becoming good or bad to become good. (good is a subjective term, by the way). however, today we no longer need religion to do all this. we've outgrown it, and it stands in the way of progress. it slows things down instead of helping. it causes conflict instead of removing it. the amount of evil done in the name of god exceeds the amount of good. the reason religion is still here is because of exactly when Len described - tradition. extreme peer pressure by family and community who are slower in taking their heads out of the sand. this is what I believe.

because you are giving up one of the basic human priviliges: curiosity. you're answering all your questions with a quick-and-easy (and in my opinion false) answer because you prefer the satisfaction of an answer to the discomfort of trying to find one yourself. you give man-made meaning to things that don't have any meaning, so that you don't have to face the problems and pain in this world. when you take anesthetics, you can't feel pain, but you also can't feel true pleasure. you're told that the joy you feel is as good as it gets, but I believe it's only a numb sensation compared to the pleasure possible by facing the world without this anesthetic.

of course I may be completely wrong about all of this. this is the difference between us - I know I may be wrong so I keep looking for proof. which is why I'm on this board. why are you?

that was my whole point.

neither am I. I'm not trying to convert you, I'm trying to let you convert me. this will either work (not so far) or it will make my opinions stronger. in the process I may also sow the seeds of doubt in your mind (or maybe I'll make your opinions stronger). if I do, I'm bring the world one step closer to being rational, in my view. if you convince me, you're bringing the world one step closer to the second coming of jesus. so we're not so different after all.

__________________
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
http://yariv.homeip.net:81/lia
http://yariv.homeip.net:81/jake

Lenzilla

I appreciate the reply 2percent. I understand where you're coming from. I'm just saddened that so many are willing to judge me (and my wife) based on my beliefs and not by my actions. Take my wife for example-an atheist-she has raised the most wonderful, kind, loving child I have ever had the fortune to come across. It's with a great deal of pride that I call him my son. Sadly, when my parents first met her, they were extremely judgmental of and troubled by her because of a conversation about religion. My wife, not one to mince words or allow others to infringe upon her beliefs, stats that she doesn't believe in god. Wow, that went over like a fart in church (if you'll excuse the term).

Yet, my parents never go to church and never pray. Tomorrow, god won't be mentioned once. Nor will he be at christmas. But, were I to bring that up-fireworks at the Civitano household. Once again I end up back in that old familiar place, I'm expected to respect my parents beliefs even though I know more about their religion than they do. Meanwhile, I'm "ridiculous, naive, clueless, and senseless" according to some members of my family. Why the disparity in the way we respect each others beliefs? Why does religion receive such undue respect but seems (I said SEEMS) to be required to give none in return? The way I live my life more closely resembles christianity than does theirs in terms of my sense of morality, etc. My folks are christian only in the sense that they've managed to keep up appearances (and even then only to a degree (weddings in church, baptisms, etc.). But my wife got nothing but cold stares and snide comments from my father for the first two years of our relationship.

2percent, you certainly did not offend me (and I apologize once again for the punctuation/grammar comments, that's not like me at all. It was just nasty of me). It's people that treat religion the way my parents do that offend me. It's people that assume they know me or have the first inkling of a clue about my moral fiber based on their interpretation of right and wrong from the bible. If the gentleman (and I use that term very loosely) who said that I was one step above a homosexual or devil worshiper got to know me, I'd hope he'd feel very differently. Unfortunately, that probably would not be the case-simply because he knows I'm an atheist. I'll bet if I behaved the same way I do every day to that same person but proclaimed myself to be a christian, he'd think quite highly of me. There's a problem there, wouldn't you agree?

As far as standing for that in which I believe...yup, you bet your but that I do. That's the only reason I post about this topic. Believe me, lowering my blood pressure and anxiety levels are not the reasons.

Enjoy your Easter
Len

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Len Civitano