Sopwith Camel

Not so fast guys...
Looks like a moderator "stapled" this thread to the original.
Sorry guys...maybe next time!

Phil DiCostanzo

CURSE YOU MODS!!!!!

I was gonna be immortal and you had to go and tack it on to the last thread!!!

Bee S

HappyPilot1

I get a kick out of this thread not because of the atheists but because I know the majority of you "christians" are protestant. You protestants are just as bad if not worse than atheists. One thing is for sure, your agenda driven "faith of choice" does NOT make you a christian. If you regect papal authority and roman catholic law you are not a christian and are nothing more than heretics.

Randy Brodbeck

Why? I never remember reading about papal authority or roman catholic law in the Bible.

no ka oi

Is this really being revived? Let it be

__________________
-Cort
California Native and Proud "G"

"Ya I F@ckin grunt when I get my swell on at the Gym. That's because everyone should see how Jacked and Tan I am!"
Obama 08

kailuaboy

What is law? How do we get law? Without God, there would be lawlessness. Without God to tell us right from wrong all we would have, is chaos.

Where do you think will happen to you when you die? nothing? something? What is the point to life, if you have nothing to look forward to when the time comes to when you are to die. It is a fact, everyone dies. If you really don't believe in God, then what is the point of living? What is the point of obeying these rules that the government has told us to obey?

Do you fear death? I for one do not. I have a peace knowing what is going to happen to me. Do you have peace? I can not wait to be gone from this world, this world full of sin. But, that doesnt mean that I can not live a full and honest life. One that my "creator" has given me the opportunity to live as to what He wants.

I admit, I am not perfect and neither is anyone else. But, that again comes to my question; how do we get law? what is law? how do we distinguish right from wrong without someone telling us what is right and wrong? If we can not come to a conclusion as to what is "truly right and wrong" then, how can we determine if someone is so-called "worse than atheists" as you put it?

I live by one set of laws, the law of the Bible. That is what tells me what is right and wrong. That is how I live my life. Through the grace of God, this country was founded on those laws. But through time, this country has whored itself into what it is today. And in the future, I see this nation going from a super power, to a history lesson as to what not to repeat. We are going further and further away from God. And as doing so, leads to consequences. Look as to what is happening lately: war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, possible war with Iran, China, Russia (another cold war), oil prices (coming up to $100/barrel), economy in disarray, the real estate market, possible recession (which I do not believe will only last for a few months), the democratic flip-flopper party (just kidding), etc. You get my point though. Or at least I hope you do.

It has been historically proven that the further ones country drifts away from God, the more likely that chaos will rule (examples: Israel, United States, England, etc.). The protection of God is slowly being lifted from this country.

Lenzilla

I will not further reply to the posts on this particular thread because it sucks the life right out of me, and I''m not going to change anyone's mind. I have no argument with anyone here as to whether or not god exists. Frankly, I just don't care to join that argument.

That said, as an atheist and I am sick and tired and fed up beyond belief with people who think that I somehow have a less than well developed set of morals, sense of right from wrong, blah, blah, blah. Furthermore, that you think that life is pointless for us poor lost atheists is sickening to say the least. What is the point of living, you ask? Is my family enough of a reason for you? Fortunately, I don't have to justify that to you or anyone else. Are you calling my life pointless because I don't believe in the things you believe. This is why (not as an atheist, but as a human being) I have a problem with all of this.

I reread a post by Rick Childers a while back in this thread and he outright said the life of the person he replied to must be empty and hollow because he didn't believe. I don't feel that way at all, and no thanks, I don't need any one to pray for me or show me how much fuller my life can be-I do not at all feel as though my life is vacuous or in any way unfulfilled. Who the hell is anyone here-yes including you Rick (I was angered by that post when I first saw it-should have replied then)-to make such judgments about my life?

And what is this "worse than atheists" CRAP. How have atheists become the benchmark for determining good from evil, right from wrong, moral from immoral. I have had many conversations with pilots who turn out to be atheist, and each one happens to be a wonderful, thinkning, caring, moral person. I guess they all go home and kill kittens when no one is looking. Ask anyone at this company that knows me-my name is Len Civitano-ask them if I fly around acting "evil" or if my crazy atheist ways are kept in check only by the laws that all of you wonderful, halo wearing christians have set up for me and my cult of heathens. I may have my own set of morals, but at least I'm not a hypocrite. I watch people pick and choose which parts of biblical "law" they feel is right for them and which parts to discard, then go out and call themselves "people of god." I have several Catholic friends that are divorced. I think we can all agree on some level that if someone is being abused, then certainly we may be able to condone divorce. But what if things just aren't working out. Are they not viloating Catholic "law?" Did they not knowingly pick and choose which rules to obey and which to discard based on their own circumstances. At least I don't judge them for it.

You're right Kailuaboy, no one is perfect, least of all me. However, to discard rules placed at your feet because you feel they are outdated, no longer apply, or just plain aren't for you makes me wonder, who granted you that authority? Are you not breaking the "law" intentionally. To err is human, but to break laws intentionally and knowingly is a crime, right (sin in your world)? Do you then atone for your sins? Since you asked such pointed questions of us atheists, do you go to confession and wash your hands clean of your wrongdoing, do you bother to atone at all? Is your conscience clean once you confess? Mine wouldn't be-I'd be asking myself why I KNOWINGLY sinned to begin with and continue to-I wouldn't be a very good Christian. I only have to go as far as premarital sex to begin my list offenses. Did you confess each and every time only to go out and do it again and again. Is that not breaking your biblical law? Or does that part not apply to you? Should you continue to be forgiven for it-a few Hail Marys and your on your way? Maybe you were a virgin until the day you got married, but there's someone out there that fits this bill. Maybe this rule doesn't exist within your brand of Christianity, but there's at least one that believes it to be a sin.

Incidentally, you follow biblical law, you say. Is that a valid defense or justification for speeding tickets, running a red light, busting 250 below 10,000, etc. What makes you follow those rules, or any others for that matter when they aren't a direct result of the ten commandments or biblical interpretation? Jesus didn't have cars or planes. Does that mean that I follow our man made rules better than you. Would that then mean that I contribute to the stability of things where you are the harbinger of chaos?

There is evidence to support the theory that "right and wrong" are hardwired into us, that from an evolutionary standpoint, a civilization that is evil simply can not procreate and survive. They'd kill each other off. We can argue the validity of this all day long-and I know that can take us down many roads-in fact, I realize that very statement could be used in support of your case (yup, the world is killing itself off these days-but then, isn't there a christian at the helm who has stated publicly that he's doing god's work?). But the fact remains that I still have a well developed sense of morals.

Some would claim that it's because my folks or grandparents started off with church, and got passed down to me. Well, if that's the case, I'm glad we diverged, because I have seen so much bigotry, racism, judgmentalism (is that a word?), etc. that I am on occasion embarrassed by my own family and their god fearing ways.

Kailuaboy, this is not a direct attack on you, honestly. I have no ill will towards anyone. Religion, in my opinion, gets undue respect. I have no problems with you or your life-I'm quite content to live and let live, but I lash out quickly when "the point of my life" is directly attacked or when my choices are judged by others who don't even know me or what my sense of morality entails. Seldom if ever are atheists afforded the same respect and courtesy. People ask me so often in casual conversation what religion I am-you should see the difference in how they treat me when I tell them. I don't treat people differently based on, really, anything-other than their attitude towards me. Please just realize that because people don't have the same beliefs as you, doesn't mean that they aren't wonderful people. But then I shouldn't have to tell a good Christian that, right?

AviatorTx

ffffffffffffffffff

__________________
This post is my personal opinion only. I make no claim of being an actual XJT employee, nor do I play an XJT employee on TV. All statements are made only as that of a private tax paying citizen of the United States. No affiliation with Expressjet, Expressjet Holdings, or ALPA are expressed, nor implied.

?

what i want to know is: how the hell did kailuaboy pass the psych eval?

oh wait!