There is no god. - Page 6

j3tDr1v3r · 10-14-2006, 07:54 PM

Gotta say I somewhat agree with McPickles's original post on this subject. While my reasoning for my beliefs may be different, my thoughts are close to his.
I DO believe in some higher power, but as to what form that power takes is still unknown to me. I also however, COMPLETELY disagree with organized religion.
I was born, raised, and baptized Catholic, and have tried several other religions in my later years, and have found everyone of them to be hypocritical in some form. Why can I not just believe in "something" without going to a building every week, giving them money, and having them berate me for my "social and moral injustices" when I was right there beside half the fellow "brethern" doing the same S**T? I have several very personal experiences that have also made me realize that a church of any form is not required of me to have "faith".
Why is it that to the "strong believers" their God is the ONLY God? Because a portion of our planets population believe in Budda, or Allah, little green men, or whatever the heck those Scientologist believe in makes them somehow incorrect and relegated to the depths of "hell"???
I live my life a good as I can. I treat others with respect, and will go out of my way to help anyone. (I have SEVERAL "christain" friends who wouldn't do half the things for others that myself and my "non-christain" friends would do for others). I also enjoy partying, drinking, cussing, etc. but I guess because I don't give a building my money or worship their God means I'm doomed to "eternal flames"

mckpickle · 10-14-2006, 08:13 PM

Pete, I completely respect how you feel about the issue. The only thing that baffels me is that while I admitt that there may be a god, most religous folks can't admit that there may not. The reason why we don't hit the back button and move on is because we are judged as heratics for not believing in the same way. Almost like we are less evolved than the rest of society because we don't believe. You do believe and thats fine. But don't let it affect my life.

j3tDr1v3r · 10-14-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliguy2772

What is mindblowing for me is that many people would rather believe that the earth, solar system, and the universe for that matter formed by pure random chance. That all living things on the earth formed by pure chance and luck, and that we evolved from single cell creatures up through ape-like creatures to what we are today. Have you any idea how complex the human body is?! Random chance? Yeah right. Would you believe that given 10 million, heck I'll give you a billion years, that a 747 could form on it's own in a field? Sounds absurd, right? The human body is a million times more complex.

Just so I completely understand your post, are you saying that evolution in any form is a fabrication?
Why do you say that "random chance" is hard to comprehend yet "poof... there ya go" is completely logical?
I am not trying to knock your beliefs. To each their own, just don't understand the thought process here.

Also, No I never get upset or angry with anyone that wishes to discuss "God" (whatever he/she/it may be) in my presence [see my previous post]. The majority of my family are devout Catholics. I love to discuss their beliefs with them, I just don't want to be judged for mine.

10-14-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliguy2772

Well, it's not about forcing anyone's beliefs on anyone. There's truth and non-truth. There is a God, He did send His Son to die on the cross for the world's sins, and everyone is free to either believe that or not. On judgement day, everyone will be accountable for himself. God gives us all freewill, and people can use it to believe Him and in His plan for the salvation of mankind or not..............

...........What is mindblowing for me is that many people would rather believe that the earth, solar system, and the universe for that matter formed by pure random chance. That all living things on the earth formed by pure chance and luck, and that we evolved from single cell creatures up through ape-like creatures to what we are today. Have you any idea how complex the human body is?! Random chance? Yeah right. Would you believe that given 10 million, heck I'll give you a billion years, that a 747 could form on it's own in a field? Sounds absurd, right? The human body is a million times more complex.

Many people believe in things like carbon dating, yet know nothing about it or how it works. They are more willing to believe some scientist or group of scientists who will tell them that world is such and such years old. Many are willing to take on faith that the scientists know what they're doing and are willing to just believe them (Oh, they're scientists. They must know what they're doing). Have you personally run lab tests on anything? Do you know for sure that what you read in National Geographic is correct? Yet, I am stupid and naive for believing in the Word of God.

God, for His reasons, chose faith (believing without seeing the tangible) to be what pleases Him. The bible says that God chose the foolish things of this world, so that no flesh would glory in His presence. That makes sense to me... so no one can walk before God and boast how great they are based on heavenly principles. So you want tangible proof? The bible says that the world around you should be enough (the sky, the oceans, the stars, sun, moon, etc.) to know that this all couldn't have happened all by random chance................bah, blah, blah

The problem with your assumption is you have to ignore, in its entirety, nano-particle physics and the fact that scientists manipulate molecular particles on a daily basis to create new and interesting particles. The only difference between a diamond and the graphite in a pencil is the arrangement of the atoms.

Existing discoveries serve as the foundation for other scientists to build on. Science is cumulative and there lies the great tension between science and religion: religious creeds are static. Their foundation fixed, sacred relics preserved with high fidelity and passed down through the minds of their carriers from generation to generation over the centuries.

The funny thing about science is that you could teach Newton or Aristotle or Copernicus or any of the ancient gurus a lesson. Any one of them might have been smarter than any one of us, but we happen to know more than they did about the world and how everything works in it. Science advances cumulatively and, since we live later, even the nonscientists among us know much more about a lot of things than the great scientists of past epochs. It's that simple. Sure, aristotle could walk into a philosophy discussion and hold his own but in a modern day science class he'd be lost.

Here are some basic things we all know that he'd be shocked by:

1. the earth orbits the sun

2. there are more than four elements and none of them are earth, water, fire, or air

3. and we could forget about trying to explain electricity, magnetism, lasers, transistors, microprocessors, solar cells, quantum physics, or carbon nanotubes.

The peacefull coexistance of science and religion is an illusion. They are imcompatible and mutually exclusive. The scientific method is antithetical to religious doctirne and even non-theistic mysticism. Science rests upon testable hypothesis, repeatable results, empirical evidence, reason, experimentation, skepticism, and challenging established beliefs and conventional wisdoms.

Religion rests upon the unquestioning faith of its believers. Religious narratives contain beliefs about the creation of the universe, the creation of man, and concepts like afterlife or reincarnation. Science asserts itself not in value-laden beliefs but in factual understandings of the world and mechanisms and phenomena by which it operates, stripped of any theological significance and it lives by this creed: "TAKE NO ONE'S WORD FOR IT".

It's been suggested that religion exists to explain the unexplainable. Some humans feel cognitive dissonance in the absence of explanations. Part of the lure of spirituality and religion is that they appear to fill in the blanks in the questions where science has yet to answer. If you must fill in the blanks with religion than do it privately in your own home or church.

Science by its very nature is open and strengthened by the scrutiny of the public. But the integrity and usefulness of science is threatened whenever it is attacked on idealogical grounds. Thomas Jefferson said, "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it" (T Jefferson)

Einstein is often misreported to have believed in god. In his own words, "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systmtically repeated....If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

(A. Einstein)

Many scientists have presented mathmatical models on our existence and the possibility of life in other galaxies as a function of random chance and chaos.

Hawkings, Sagan, Einstein, Lametre(a monk I might add), Wolfe.......shall I go on. The refusal of of the religiously blinded to see merit in those models does not mean the models are not there or are in-supportable.

Weigh those theories against the scripture which still says the earth is the center of the universe and everything orbits around the earth in round paths (copernican theory) and I'll stick with science--growing knowledge,

rather than religion--static belief in blind faith.

Aviator27J · 10-14-2006, 08:40 PM

There have been several posts by several people in here with whom I agree and of course disagree.

My take on it, to sum it up hopefully in a rather short post, is this. I was born and raised Christian (Baptist at first, then Presbytarian, but I didn't notice the subtle changes at my age of 12 or so). My mother was raised Catholic and I know of that religion too, my father baptist and they're both pretty religious and sort of pressure me to be, especially since I'm getting married soon and have one child with another on the way. They thankfully don't pressure me into Christian faith since I mentioned that we're open to a lot of interpretation when it comes to religion but they do believe (justly, might I add) that my children should be raised with some religion at least. I do keep searching for what religions seem to suit me and even though nothing fits quite right yet I do have a few things I look for in a religion.

One, I do believe in a superior power of some sort. There's no way in my mind my son was created by random events and no amount of evolution (which I do believe in) has formed his personality and explains anything close to the way I feel when I think about him, my fiancee, or the thoughts we all individually have in our minds. If we're all the same then our world would be much different without personalities and everything else of that nature.

Two, speaking of nature, I prefer a religion that encourages the respect of the environment. Almost all religions might not exactly tell you to litter or dump oil in the ocean but not many show the respect or explain or encourage the feeling I get when I'm in nature. That's very important to me. I don't think it's necessary to believe in spirits in every object in the world but there's more behind life and nature that other religions don't even touch.

Three, there's no strong pull to worship in a church or temple or anything else like that. Ceremonies, special gatherings, optional times to gather and give thanks or praise or whatever would be fine and not just understandable but nice. There are times people like to come to the comforting place like that and feel welcomed, accepted, and loved in situations when family or friends can't fill that hole in the heart.

Four, it has to be accepting of other religions and how the followers live their lives for the most part. None of the Catholic "if it feels good, stop" mentality or the belief that if you're not "one of us you're doomed." Paganism I hear is similar, for what it's worth. Religion has become not just political but it has passed its boundaries for the scientific advancement of society. Native Americans many times believe in stories about the earth being created by a couple animals and the stories seem very far-fetched...yet how's that any difference than the bible explaining the world being created in 6 days not long ago? I'm not bashing anyone or Christianity, I'm just making the point about how religious beliefs should evolve with civilization.

Five, explain goals for people both individually and as a whole. For example, the belief that each person has a talent and it's his or her goal in life to find that talent and use it to the best of his/her ability to help others. Take it how you want but the Aborigines of Australia, one of the first groups of people on the planet (I know, it may go against the bible) believe in this very strongly. Even if it's not true it's a nice thing to aim for in your life.

I'm sure there are a few more but I've already typed far too much. I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm just saying that I agree and disagree with almost every sentiment every single person has said in here. Except for that one that said "idiot" on the first page.

Nova · 10-14-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C130Loadm

I am well aware of all that you wrote. It is precisely the details that are important, like the detail about Christ.

What, that the detail that there many parallels between Christ and Mohammad? It comes down to my prophet is better than your prophet or my book that is the word of God is better than your book that is the word of God.

So how is your book guaranteed to be THE book versus that of Islam? (and don't quote your own source to prove that point).