mckpickle

Oh boy, here we go.

__________________
Steve McKnight



.... hopefully your level of future satisfaction meets your level of present expectation. I think you're being fooled. Again.
-------Sumner Nelson---------

B Minus

see below..

Seems like the FAA and ALPA agree.

Part 1 Definitions

I guess the question is, when did you "land" on a gate return?

Endir1001

I think a more important question is 'does the gate return act as an amendment to your schedule, thereby dropping the leg-by-leg pay protection and leaving you with scheduled day or better?'

I_Love_Lamp

Ah okay, I forgot about that second part of the clause. Thank you very much for your mature response.

__________________
They say that the captain stays fast with the ship,
Through still and storm,
But this ain't the Dakota,
And the water's so cold,
{We} won't have to fight for long.

I went down with the ship baby!

XJT Furloughee

daddy

No - it will count as overs for the scheduled leg, assuming you actually then fly the scheduled leg. If they end up cancelling the leg, then you will end up getting the greater of originally scheduled block or actual (and actual would only be more if the gate return took longer than the cancelled leg)...

Call Me Stupid

...and also remember that if no other change to your schedule occurs you are still good for scheduled flight time, even if it takes you over 8 hours pay time. If the trip cancels, then they can't reschedule you for more than 8 hours.

TheBills

But assuming I am looking at tomorrow, If tomorrow, my scheduled flight time puts me over 30 hours by two minutes, It needs to be adjusted, Correct

British

Counts as duty time not flight time.

__________________
Air Tran-ing

av8tr4610

ok, then doesnt the question become...if the flight number doesnt change with the return, than isnt it just a continuation of that flight and thus SHOULD be included in the total flight time of that perticular flight number/segment? I understand that you didnt actually take off at that point or land but eventually that flight did under that same number, and that time should be counted towards the total. Please take this as a true question, im not trying to be an a$$.

ex.........http://cf.alpa.org/internet/Projects...A_Jeppesen.pdf

..........A-6. No. Taxi time and ground holding time, which are not followed by
actual flight, are not considered “flight time” for purposes of
calculating flight time limitations.....

....so my argument would be that it is was followed by actual flight...and because that flight number/flight segment did not change it should be considered as total flight time.

I think that that could be sucessfully argued in a court.

Call Me Stupid

And I think that if it could be....it would have been many many years ago. This is not something new. These are the same rules that our grandparents operated under. ALPA's guide is based on legal decisions, not just what does the rule say. When the guide says it doesn't count, that means at some point in time it was challenged and the ruling stands. We just need to know and follow the rules as listed in the guide until such point in time that they are changed.