GasPasser

I agree...the question is then...how do schools approach the subject of origins. Even "Science" has had limited ability to observe even a fraction of the process necessary to develop a hypothesis. Science can't get away with saying "All matter always was" and then ask those claiming "God always was" to stay out of the discussion. Why not allow the discussion? What are we afraid of...do we think Middle School kids need to be "protected" from these ideas? Then when they go to Public College 5 years later and attend a General Ed Theology class its suddenly okay? Sounds like book burning on the OTHER side.

kidicarus5897

It should be appoached in philosophy class. The big bang THEORY theorises that all matter originated from an infinetaly dense speck, and comsmological observations support this theory. The point is, there is scientific observation as support for this theory, making it science. So, until creationism can find an observation for creation besides the virgin mary-shaped potato chip, it should remain the topic of discussion in philosophy classes

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preludespeeder

Wow, that is all I can say. How does any religious person who believes in God, the fairy tale of creation, and thinks religion is good for this country not understand science. Oh wait I know, because to believe in religion you have to think critically and reason with some sort of merit. Here is a link to a real study about education and religion.

Intelligence & Religion

Secondly to ask a question of the creation/intelligent design believers. How does saying God created all of this solve the origin of the universe. Even if we forget that the time line for creationism does not match the real time line, we forget that the bible does not mention a universe, we forget that every other thing in the bible has been disproved by science many times over (the earth is not the center of the universe, light was not created after the earth, and humans are not the dominate species in earths history) where did God come from. How did he become to exist, what gave him his power, where did he get the material to create all of this, why has he not showed himself, why do all humans not believe in the same creator, why does the bible contradict what we can test and see for ourselves, and why are we the only species created on this planet and there are not other planets that have humans on them.

I think you guys have never thought about the reality that when you simply say God created us you have just created more questions then answers to the origins of the universe. I had this question when I was 8 in a private school that my parents made me go. I asked the teacher and he had the same answer I will get from you. It just is what it is. Hmm, sounds a lot like what science has said but is using research and observation every day to find the answer while religion just does not think about it.

Lastly, go study some history to understand why we have separation of church and state. We came to this country to get away from the problems that situation created, yet you want to go down that path again. I have heard that the third awakening is upon us, everyday I really think that is starting to happen. Funny fact, of all the great empires that have existed in this world, the one thing that has brought them all to their knees was the uprising of religion.

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Anonymous

lap

That judge and other non-strict constructionist judges are wrong. They are human and not infallible. Even the supreme court has come up with some doozies.

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preludespeeder

What was funny about dover was the judge who decided that case was someone religious leaders put in place. Even educated religious judges believe that religion and schools do not belong together.

__________________
"So, you may think you're going to blow me away with your amazing show of rhetoric, but believe me, I have seen it before, and you're wrong. The thing that you're about to write is not only wrong, but transparently, stupidly, embarrassingly wrong, so wrong that it makes me wince inwardly with shame at the fact that you're a member of the same human race that I am"

Anonymous

GasPasser

Um ya, I make an attempt at civil discussion and you insult my intelligence. Class act.

GasPasser

Valid argument. The only question it doesn't answer is the fact that even a "philosophy" discussion would still be attacked by the Church Separation folks. I also think that kids whose parents are so vehemently for Creationist teaching are already taught by their parents and their church...and you get into the eventual problem of religious people not liking HOW the school system is portraying their side once it is taught.

kidicarus5897

I think philosophical theology classes do a pretty good job of putting the different religious views into context when introduced in that setting. Nothing is assumed to be fact when taught in a philosophy class, but rather the discussion and teachings of different views on the human condition. When taught in science class, it is assumed that what is taught is fact, and a correct discription of reality based on observation and the scientific method. Unfortunately for most people, religion is introduced to them at a very young age by a parent and is accepted as fact. Hell, I really believed in santa and the easter bunny because of my parents until my own observations and my parents coming clean changed my beliefs. It is human nature to question what we are told if it does not agree with logic and observation, and in order to perpetuate a belief in the face of logic and observation, one must develop a faith. However, there is nothing scientific about faith. And if a theology class presents each religion from an un-biased perspective, no "preaching" takes place and the student can decide which philosophy he/she chooses to follow. And if religious people don't like how their religion is portrayed in an un-biased and purely observational stand point, then who knows, maybe they should change the way they view their own religion.

__________________
Hey, it's not lying if what I said would be true if the facts were different......

GasPasser

That's what I'm getting at. It's those parents who are fighting for it, who will probably end up disappointed with the results if they get their way, and will end up even more annoying than the anti-religion parents. Although I don't oppose Creation being taught, I'm not really for it either...do they really want their kids to hear theology from a teacher probably being forced to discuss it? It will just end up being a big mess for everyone only to decide which set of parents on either side is more annoying at the PTA meeting.

Again, I believe its constitutional, and the discussion could be healthy...but its one of those "Be careful what you ask for" potential screw jobs when you ask the government to take care of a delicate issue.

kidicarus5897

I agree, it can be healthy in the right context and setting. And we all know what happens when a government is driven by a religious vendetta. However, I believe that religious beliefs are a personal matter to be taught at home or at an openly religious school. I still can't figure out exactly what creationist would teach in a class anyway. "ok kids, big bang, matter coalesses, stars and planets form, elements form molecules, molecules form amino acids, single cells develop and evolve over billions and billions of years to the life forms we see today, and here is all the evidence and observation to support this view. And another idea is that an all-powerful being created everything. How? we don't know. Why? we don't know." I don't know how much there would be to explain as far as the actual "creating" goes.

__________________
Hey, it's not lying if what I said would be true if the facts were different......