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Old 10-16-2006, 11:18 PM   #111 (permalink)
Stephan Dupourque
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 12:15 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Better yet, explain to me why certain books of the bible that didn't shed Jesus in the most favorable light were left out?
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:27 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Define "God".

“God is dead.”, said Nietzsche.
“Nietzsche is dead.” said God.

Just curious, how many here have read any of the works of Joseph Campbell?

I also would like to recommend the work of Richard Strozzi-Heckler, "In Search of the Warrior Spirit".


“First of all, we all have our own personal beliefs and convictions, and I would never intrude on yours, so for the sake of discussion, we call our first factor "luck." You may call it whatever you wish.”
-Al Haynes, Captain, UAL 232



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Old 10-17-2006, 03:45 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Do you know why I know there is God? I have done way too much stupid crap in my life (a little of it flying too but not here) and I am still alive. There has to be someone up there watching out for me!
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:55 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I have never been able to understand the importance that belief plays in religion. Why do i have to believe that Jesus walked on water... or turned water into wine... or that the earth was created in 7 days... or that Noah got 2 of every animal to **** on a boat to repopulated the planet in order to be a good person?

Would someone kindly explain that to me?

Its not what we belive, but what we do that defines us.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:31 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Shrubber
Its not what we believe, but what we do that defines us.
That's what I say! Are we to believe that the only reason Christians (for example) don't steal or kill is because they are in the 10 Commandments AND they are promised the Kingdom of Heaven and all it's glory if they follow those rules? They don't kill because it's not the right thing to do, they do it because they are being promised something bigger if they don't?

Personally I try to treat others well because it's the right thing to do and don't consider after-life rewards.

It all seems to be a big bribe. Do this or that, don't do this or that, believe this or that and will give you a treat later. We've even seen it mentioned here in this thread a few times. "You'll be sorry for your beliefs when you die." Sometimes it can be harder to do the right thing but it seems for a lot of folks they have to be given something in return for that effort. Does God really want selfish followers?
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:47 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Rog, Nova, you guys are bang on the money. The idea that, regardless of how good a person you are, you have to jump through these absurd ecclesiastical hoops (being dunked in water, chanting magic words, believeing in silly fantasy stories, or ignoring the evidence of your own eyes) as a prerequisite to the Kingdom of Heaven is the realm of the opiated masses, and is indicative of the intelligence of the same. I believe in none of that rubbish, yet am still able to live my life more in line with Christian values than most Christians are capable of. If there is a God, and he/she/it has such a problem with that that the only solution is Eternal Damnation, then that Supreme Being can just lick my lefty. Put simply, I don't have to believe in Creationism and Great Floods to help a little old lady across the street or give a homeless dude a buck.

On Athiesm:
There are no athiests, only confused agnostics. An excellent Captain with whom it was my great fortune to share a month of day trips laid out the logical fallacy of it like this: "There is no way to be 100% sure that there is no God. You can be 99% sure, 99.9% and so on, but as long as there's that .1%, there's a possibility. As long as there's a possiblity, you're an agnostic." Granted, the same logic can be used to prove the existence of the Easter Bunny, but I'm a proud agnistic so I'm not going to split Hares, and besides, having such a scientific mind I'm disinclined to say that anything is impossible. Only exceedingly unlikely.

On Creationism:
I have noted that people who believe in Intelligent Design and want it taught in schools almost invariably have two things in common- one, a profound misunderstanding of what science is, and two, a disturbing level of religious (and intellectual) intolerance. If you have to believe that all Hindus are going to Hell and that all Muslims are evil, I can't stop you. But science is one thing, belief is another, and here's why Creationism belongs to the latter and has no place in a science curriculum-
SCIENCE IS NOT WRITTEN IN STONE. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE.
Science observes things, makes up hypotheses about those observations, tests those hypotheses, and writes up a theory to try to describe whats going on. If new evidence comes along suggesting that the previous theory is wrong, then it is re-tested, re-hypothesized, and re-written until the theory fits the best available evidence at the time. This is all Evolutionary Theory does. When new evidence is (literally) unearthed, then the theory is modified, or new theories are postulated to better describe what has happened. Science is a living, breathing, changing thing. Anyone who says "Evolution is a fact" is a dammed fool with no more understanding of science than a creationist, and any Creationist who says "Evolution is imperfect! Scrub it for the Bible, and teach our kids the same!" is simply, and profoundly, ignorant of basic science. Again, put simply, new science books are written almost every school year. New Bibles are not. That's how easy it is to differentiate the science from the belief.

Edit to add: If you must teach Creationism, fine. But to be fair, you have to also teach all these "theories" along with it: 6.1 Ainu
6.2 Apache
6.3 Australian Aboriginal
6.4 Aztec
6.5 Babylonian
6.6 Bantu
6.7 Buddhist
6.8 Cherokee
6.9 Chinese
6.10 Choctaw
6.11 Christian
6.11.1 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
6.12 Creek
6.13 Digueno
6.14 Egyptian
6.15 Evolutionary Spirituality
6.16 Finnish
6.17 Greek (Classical)
6.18 Hermeticism
6.19 Hindu
6.20 Hopi
6.21 Hmong
6.22 Inca
6.23 Inuit
6.24 Iroquois
6.25 Islam
6.26 Japan
6.27 Jainism
6.28 Judaism
6.29 Korea
6.30 Lakota
6.31 Maasai
6.32 Mandaeism
6.33 Mandinka
6.34 Mansi
6.35 Mayan
6.36 Māori
6.37 Mongol
6.38 Navajo
6.39 Norse
6.40 Ojibwe
6.41 Orok
6.42 Polynesian
6.42.1 Hawaiian
6.43 Randomness
6.44 Seminole
6.45 Sikh
6.46 Surat Shabda Yoga
6.47 Taoism
6.48 Tlingit
6.49 Voodoo
6.50 Wicca
6.51 Yoruba
6.52 Zen
6.53 Zoroastrianism
6.54 Zulu


And I mean, come on. We've got enough kids failing science classes as it is withough overloading them like this. And confusing them as to what science really is.
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Old 10-17-2006, 02:06 PM   #118 (permalink)
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According to my church, (or at least the place I go - wouldn't necessarily call it my church - have yet to find one I like).. as long as you believe, you will go to heaven... which means you can act like an a..hole and still go to heaven.. ofcourse they would like you to act like jesus - but if you don't - as long as you believe - you'll go to heaven.. and everyone else is out of luck, regardless of how well you treat your fellow human being.
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Old 10-17-2006, 02:12 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interested
.. and everyone else is out of luck, regardless of how well you treat your fellow human being.
And you're OK with that? The belief that Hitler can go to heaven but Ghandi can't?
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Old 10-17-2006, 02:15 PM   #120 (permalink)
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[And you're OK with that? The belief that Hitler can go to heaven but Ghandi can't?[/quote]


HELLO??? I said I have yet to find a church I agree with.. to me that makes no sense... that is why the christian churches for the most part - (I know I haven't seen them all) - sound like a bunch of idiots to me... They contradict themsleves all the time and sound pretty "Unchristian-like" from my perspective... belief seems less important than actions. But I guess I'll go to hell for that.
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