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Originally Posted by gabriel12
As far as Pascal's wager applying equally to aliens, santa clause, the boogy man, etc. Is there really a comparison of getting Christmas presents from a man in a red suit and going to Heaven or Hell? If you tend to think that these comparisons are about the same, then I think there seems to be something illogical to what reality is for you, but, then again, that is just my personal opinion.
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Yet you believe in Heaven and Hell, which have no basis in reality whatsoever! I can't decide if this is just irony or flat-out hypocrisy...
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Originally Posted by gabriel12
yes, someone only believing based on pascal's wager doesn't necessarily mean that they have true faith in God, but sometimes, their beginning wager belief can help them become more knowledgable in their religion, which finding out the facts, can and usually does, bring them to a more dedicated faith that is no longer founded on a wager, but a true love for God.
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I agree with you there (mostly - except for the part about facts. Religions often employ much hyperbole and storytelling, which obscure many facts that may or may not been there initially). But even if Pascal's wager does get someone to a true love for God, it still doesn't tell us anything about the evidence of his existence or not, which is what we are discussing here.
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Originally Posted by gabriel12
Not everyone needs this so-called proof that you seem to need. Even when shown many examples of proof, you won't believe. Is it out of stubborness? Is it out of wanting to not follow another? Don't know...you have your reason.
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Again, it's not examples of proof we're being shown - it's examples of
belief. And there's a difference. A big difference. HUGE. And many of the examples shown do
prove to me why you
believe in God, but they still offer no proof to his actual existence.
I don't believe in God... but not due to stubbornness or not wanting to follow another. I have no problem following someone or thing if I believe in what they or it stand(s) for. My reason is that it just doesn't make sense to me. The explanations science offers tend to make more sense in these types of questions. It doesn't explain everything, but there's no need to fill in the gaps with God, Allah, Vishnu, or the FSM. If there comes a time when it does make logical, reasonable sense to me by invoking a God, then I will probably believe in one. I know that's why I did when I was a little kid - it made sense to me then. But I also believed in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and that if I ate a watermelon seed a watermelon would grow in my tummy (and I spit those suckers out like there was no tomorrow!). Those also made sense to me then. Just like God makes sense to you now (I assume...).
I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm better than you or anyone else who believes, like some have claimed on here (not about me in particular - that I know of - but just Atheists in general), or that I'm more "enlightened". To take away the negative connotations of that term, I'd just say that we are "differently-lightened" (I know that sounds hokey and PC, but it's just for comparison's sake). We all have different backgrounds, upbringings, experiences, knowledges, and beliefs, obviously. So from all that I have stored in my brain, and the way I process it, it just doesn't make sense to me. From what you have stored in your brain, and from the way you process it, you come to a different conclusion.
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Originally Posted by gabriel12
It seems to me that their are some educated people on here giving you [i]proof[i], but you discount them.
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Again, see my above response regarding proof and belief. You should have highlighted
It seems to me instead, that is more indicative of reality than what actually constitutes proof.
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Originally Posted by gabriel12
So, maybe you just aren't affirmed enough in other areas of your life that you have to come to express forums to make you feel that you have accomplished something...? So, what have you accomplished and where will this, your accomplishment, lead you?
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I'M GETTING REALLY GOOD AT TYPING!!!
No, seriously, I don't come on the pipe to feel I've accomplished something; I enjoy thinking about and discussing these universal, big-picture types of questions. Some people hate it because they know we can't figure it out exactly, so they don't want to waste their time with it. And I understand that (since I do believe that this life on Earth is the only one we have to live, and our time here is finite). But it's only human nature to question our existence. And our existence (as well as that of everything non-human) fascinates me to no end...