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Old 04-08-2008, 09:05 AM   #1009 (permalink)
Red Swingline
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Yariv, I'm sorry, but I have to call Shenanigans on you. The tone of your post belies your claimed goals. Your belief that you've "shot down" and run off every Theist and their "stupefying" beliefs on here is evidence that you must not really be interested in what you claim to be searching for; most of us have said the same thing repeatedly yet it's dismissed off hand.

Quote:
  • is there any more evidence that god exists than evidence that santa claus exists?
  • if christianity is all about love thy neighbor and such, why are atheists treated worse than a bleeding rat in a tampon factory?
  • is there anything in the physical world that can't happen without god?
I and many others have said time and time again that there is no direct, measurable, quantifiable evidence of God's existence. Were there such evidence, the need for (here's that word you so deride) faith would be unnecessary. It's as simple as that. As long as you challenge God to show you absolute proof, He will not. If you ask God to change your heart He most definitely will. Now, those of us who believe in God recognize His hand in every aspect of life. I recognize His workings in everything from "the birds of the air" to quantum mechanics, but that's just me.

This leads in to your third point - free will. You are free to live your life exactly how you want. If you don't want to deal with God, you are welcome to avoid Him, it's as simple as that. The exciting thing is, if you choose not to believe in Him, that means you don't have to believe in the afterlife either and so don't let it worry you. Now, let me pre-empt the response to this; one that goes something like, "Why would I want to believe in a God that will punish me for not believing?" Let's try some other variations of that question. Why would I want to pay taxes to a government that would put me in jail for not paying taxes? Why would I want to be healthy when I'm just going to die anyway? Why do I have to be responsible for the consequences of my actions? Well, to put it bluntly, that's the way it works.

Your second point is the hardest of them all for me personally. It's what I struggled with for many, many years due to my past experiences with "religious" people. There are actually two components to your second point; firstly, I can't tell you how to move past the persecution complex. There is a certain level of self-fulfilling prophesy involved with taking on the mantle of the much maligned "Atheist". If you believe that everyone is out to get you, you will find examples of that malicious intent everywhere you look. I'm certainly not out to get you or anyone. I like to believe that were it to happen, you and I could fly a great 4 day together, enjoy a couple of beers and complain about Chautauqua, Continental and Q-400's and have and all around relaxed time.

That being said, there are far too many "Christians" or other religious folks who take God's Judgmental Duties upon themselves and hand it out to all they see. This goes directly against everything in both the Old and New Testament. It's not our place to do that, and it pains me to see it happen. If there's one component most of us can agree on whether we are Theist, Atheist or Agnostic, it's that we need to treat one another with respect and care - and that's something many still miss.

So, the only answer to your second point is an apology that we humans have failed to be godly enough for you, but that's what we do. I'll wager that someone who doesn't believe in God can disappoint or upset you just as easily as one who does. If you don't put your faith in humans specifically though, you'll find you'll be less disappointed.

In the end if you really are truly interested in finding God, wherever you are sitting right now, take a moment and sincerely ask Him to change your heart. Hey, if He's not real, no harm no foul - but if it is time for you to find out about Him, He will answer you. Only then can you honestly say you are, "... sincerely looking for any shred of proof or evidence god exists...".

Anyway, back to the shooting.
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Last edited by Red Swingline; 04-08-2008 at 09:19 AM..
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